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that is this week apps last word. the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts now. >> hope hicks on the stand. >> you cannot overstate just how significant this testimony was. >> hope hicks described the meltdown inside trump world over the release of the access hollywood tape. >> the impact of the access hollywood tape as well as be concerned about the other stories has to be driven home to the jury. >> she just started crying. tissues came out and the court,

the judge said we'll take a break. >> i'm not allowed to testify because this judge has me under an unconstitutional gag order. >> altavista unconstitutionally gagged. he gagged me. >> today trump has the absolute right to testify. >> police crackdowns continue on college campuses across the country. >> we plan to be here until our demands are met, no matter what. >> these are radical left lunatics. >> the right to protest but not the right to cause chaos. >> nationwide, more than 2100 arrests have been made connected to campus protests. >> because of donald trump mama more than 20 states have abortion bans. >> in florida strict new limits took effect. >> impact of this ban is felt not just in florida but across the southeast. >> former president donald trump did this. >> good evening once again and let's get excited. i am stephanie ruhle and we are

now 186 days away from the election. this week donald j trump continued to protest his treatment in his criminal trial here in new york city from across the nation, protests against the war in gaza expended two more college campuses. some school officials decided they had enough. with that, let's bring in our nightcap crew. it's a great one. tom rogers is back, msnbc and cnbc founder, no editor at large for newsweek. my dear old friend stephanie meta-joins us, publisher of fast company and ink magazine. ahmed baba, columnist for the independent and author of the ahmed baba.com news and sandy's age, she founder and trade of officer of boetsch's media. this is another crazy busy week in this terminal case against donald trump. donald trump got fined for violating the gag order. another gag order hearing. a lot happened. tom, this morning the judge kind of didn't stick it to donald trump but he made it

clear as donald trump has been out there this week saying i'm not going to be able to testify because of this gag order and the judge looked him square in the eye and said you absolutely can, enough of this nonsense. one of the issues, though, is there are no cameras in the courtroom. trump is going to go right back out on the trey lance say it's the judge apps false. how do you think this whole thing has gone? >> well i am still very worried that we have a prospect for a hung jury here. i am just very suspicious. very suspicious of jurors getting on there, saying they don't have an opinion of donald trump. i have never met a new yorker who does not have an opinion of donald trump. there are two lawyers there and if either of them are of a camp that favors donald trump's future, that is something that is going to upset the normal dynamic of a jury room, having two lawyers on the jury.

so i think the downside here is worse than the upside potential because the conviction here in this particular case, i don't think is really going to matter that much. when you look back at the hollywood access tape, which happened at a much more important time in the political career of donald trump and was an issue today in the trial, that didn't do it. i don't think talking about issues like this now are really going to upset donald trump's election. >> but if you're alvin bragg, alvin bragg would say i'm not doing this for anyone to win or lose an election. i'm doing this because donald trump wrote the law. >> well that's fine but what we have to worry about is donald trump coming back as president and anything that would help his case, and a hung jury here, i think he would scream for the rest of the campaign -- >> i've been exonerated.

>> he was exonerated, there was nothing here, it was a ridiculous case and new york persecutors that couldn't find anything better to do with their time. this is really an issue that i worry we are going to have to confront, and it's much more of a downside than any upside i see here. >> how do you think the prosecution is doing? >> i tend to agree with tom. i think there were a lot of people. we are going to talk about the hope hicks testimony in a little bit. a lot of people saying this was a slam dunk for the prosecution. i think hope hicks need a compelling case for the fact that donald trump also was concerned about melania's feelings. now whether we believe that the- >> sister please! >> but she put it out there and if you have that juror who says, you know, this calls into question this argument that the hush money payment was strictly a business engagement and an arrangement designed to help win the election.

she provided the counterargument. >> what did you think about hope hicks testimony? this is a woman who was glued to donald trump's side his entire administration. people very rarely heard her speak. there she was, didn't even make eye contact with him. supposedly hasn't spoken to him for a couple of years. what do you think about it? >> i think it must've been very, very frightening for her. there are many accounts that he's an intimidating person and he's sitting as far apart as we are from her so i would imagine that she has some sort of emotional attachment to this phase in her life. i imagine there were some things that happened, that she's seen, that have led her to not speak with him anymore. and i can't imagine that it was easy for her to be able to give like a completely honest accounting of what had happened without feeling like i need to impress him and falling back

into that way of being. >> ahmed, what did you think? because trump has been frustrated with his lawyers. he wants them to go tougher. he wants them to be like roy cohn, who was disbarred and disgraced. >> i think on hope hicks, on the emotional aspect, i think that boosts her credibility. >> crying boost her credibility, being fragile boost her credibility? >> i think are essentially showing that this was an emotional moment for her to be on the stand under oath in front of donald trump. like you said, she has this emotional connection, she has this history, but it was actually compelling because i think she did give evidence that was helpful to the prosecution by saying that i under no circumstances did michael cohen do this under the goodness of his own heart, out of his own volition, that he definitely -- akin to that, this was for donald. this was not something that michael would do enable them anoint nature and then not only that, we have the david

testimony really tying this to the fact that this is an election interference case, which i think makes it more compelling, indicating that this was an effort to keep information from the voting public and i feel like that the mention of this could hopefully -- i think that's what the prosecution is trying to do, seek to prevent a hung jury. when you have some people see the severity of it and see that there was actually an intent to -- which hope hicks also said, nothing going on, but she also said there was a crisis in the campaign after the excess hollywood trial. so that tells me that's intent. you have that tape and now you need to conceal this information afterwards. >> the theater of how donald trump performs to me is more interesting than the evidence at trial. >> do you not think there's any theater of hope hicks? she was crying. she was fragile. she was a person one inch away from him all four years, during

child separation, during charlottesville, after january 6. i'm not sure i buy this fragile inginue up there, like this is such a difficult moment. i didn't see any difficult moments. she stood next to him ice ice baby the whole time. >> that's why it was a difficult moment just think of what you must've experienced. willingly, yes. >> willingly! >> that doesn't mean -- a lot of people have trouble -- i don't want to cross this line but an abusive sort of dynamic, a really tough dynamic. >> maybe she was all in. >> may be but why is she all in? i think ultimately -- >> why is corey lewandowski all in? what is stephen miller all in? >> she's testifying against trump and of all people to testify against trump, she's a good execution witness. but as i said, at the end of the day, i don't think that's what really matters here. it's trump theatrics and i think what he was trying to do

early on was provoked the judge into really hitting him with a contempt charge card that might involve going to jail. so for some hours. so he could really play the card of i'm being gagged here, i can't speak, can you believe the judge would put the former president of the united states and jail for speaking his mind? i think in the last couple days he may have backed off the thought that that's helpful and the reason for that i think has to do with what we'll talk about later -- all the protests. that chaos in that world hurts biden in his mind and he's the guy who supposedly is going to be law, order, control. well if you're out of control yourself, you know the point that a judge has two jail you because you can't behave in a way that's within the decorum of the court system, then who are you to say that you're the

guy who's going to bring control here. >> you are bringing something deep! i'm liking what you're selling. >> away from that provocation because of that. >> the sort of nihilistic view of this is does any of it even matter? whether it's a hung jury, whether he gets convicted, everyone's just going to double down as they always do. you have republicans who are going to be oh, this is such a problem, i'm concerned, and then 10 minutes later they are back down to mar-a-lago paying for his meal. it's really just -- my fear is that none of it gets to anybody and people don't have clear information access, and it's just very, very hard for them to get out of their silo. >> then i want to go to my fear and stuff, i want you to come in. on wednesday trump had the day off from court. he was on the campaign trail and what did he do? he told reporters he will not necessarily accept the election results if he doesn't like them, i.e. if he doesn't win. i get that maybe somewhere in the back of our mind, we assume

he do that. that's a huge problem. >> trump always tells you what he's going to do. you know the time magazine article pointed out everything he said he was going to do. people have been -- the 2025 project very clearly spells out exactly what is going to happen if there is a trump administration, and similarly, when trump says that he will not accept the results of the election, we should be prepared for the fact that he is not going to accept the results of the election. it's plain as day he is going to do exactly what he says. >> it will be a very different approach to election denial than it was last time. they learned a lot and what they learned is you got to stay away from the courts. can you deny elections and not have it subject to court review? the big difference this time

that everybody's got to pay attention to -- >> you're killing me. >> you have mike johnson as speaker, not nancy pelosi, and the fact that the republicans control the house is significant in this respect. there is a view that the house selection in terms of who takes control is going to be close but the democrats have a really good shot. but it is the previous congress or current congress that certifies house races and it could be something -- and i'm sure they thought of this -- if there's some close races that the democrats look like they've won that it will turn control of the house to the democrats, they don't certify and then you end up on january 3 with the republicans in control, come january 6 you have the republicans, and this is a huge issue, a parliamentary tactic, which would mean that the electoral count format, which was supposed to solve all this, to make sure that an election couldn't be stolen by congress -- one problem. those rules have to be adopted by the house, meaning the

senate is a continuous body. it has -- two thirds of the body continues every election cycle. the house, it's a new house every time. if they don't put the implementing rules before the house for adoption, you have a situation where they could reject the vote in close states because they've now stolen the house through election denial. >> if we do not stop serving vodka when tom rogers is here, for a nightcap, we are all going down. >> this is really serious and has to be paid attention because they learned a lot from last time. >> are democrats, just a few months from now, owing to severely regret it if they end up saving mike johnson? marjorie taylor greene is trying to oust mike johnson and it's democrats who could be the ones who keep him in that position. if everything plays out in this deeply draconian way, the way

tom is predicting, are democrats going to rue the day that they helped this guy? >> there's always the risk of someone worse than mike johnson, if that's even imaginable, but that's the risk and i think that's what they might buffer it for, and that's what they could do. but really what it comes down to is i like the point you make about how they've learned from last time and that's a great point. >> his campaign is so much smarter and more disciplined. even if trump doesn't seem to be, his operation is. >> executive, and congress takes office before j6 so whatever changes happen there, that's going to essentially impact what happens next. meanwhile that transition team in waiting, talking about project 2025, they have essentially created -- i know you had samuel jacobs on a couple months ago. he mentioned this ideological/intellectual/legal framework that project 2025 is doing. you know that key and peeled skit where obama had a translator? trump has the reverse of that. they are taking his ravings and codifying it into calm, deliberate policy that can actually achieved.

they're finding legal avenues to get this stuff done and i know our last segment we are talking about this dismantling of agencies and the purging of civil servants. they have the plans to do so and that's the other side of this. if they go this route potentially to try to steal the election, now right after you're talking about taking office and then purging civil service, re-implementing schedule f and then pursuing this insane agenda that was outlined in the time magazine interview that just detailed the dystopian future every american should be aware of. >> another f that's in my mind right now. nobody is going anywhere. when we return, protest on college campuses and what it could mean for the 2024 election. and later our nbc of the weekend a very special one for me to remember those who served this country on our nightcap when the 11th hour continues.

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it was a busy week. this week pro-palestinian protest continued on college campuses and some administrators decided they have had enough, and in the case of columbia and ucla, called in law enforcement to clear out encampments. over 2000 people have been arrested. this has been crazy. stephanie, are you surprised about how quickly everything escalated this week? from the size of the protest to the responses.

>> i think i am a little surprised, mostly because you had students who were i think -- it's a pressure cooker situation and you have young people who are feeling incredibly disaffected. you have young people, i think a couple of articles have pointed out that this class of 2024, these were the kids who -- >> covid seniors. >> they didn't get a proper graduation when they graduated from high school. they will probably not yet an in person graduation this year, depending on the campuses they are on. this is a group of young people who are incredibly disaffected. they've been in this pressure cooker, and so all of a sudden they are i think feeding off of one another. and on top of that and a place like columbia or some of these urban campuses, you have outside forces coming in and i think the fact that they were riled up was one thing. i was a little surprised by the swiftness with which the

administrations sought to quell the dissent. >> tom, the protesters are demanding that the universities, the endowment divest from any investments in any companies that do business in israel and i understand on its face it sounds like they can just do that. this is really, really, located. we're talking billions and billions of dollars. and it's highly illiquid. it's difficult to do, and they are so angry with universities for not doing it. is that one of the issues, that this isn't necessarily demand that can just get solved for, and in many cases the university doesn't necessarily control the endowment? >> i think the demand is totally off base because i don't believe at the end of the day that there is a broad humanitarian viewpoints hear that they're really after. because if that was the case, we'd hear something about

ukraine. the columbia professors talk about why israel, why not all kinds of inhumane treatment by china or korea. they say because u.s. policy is to support israel. it's one that we are involved in as in terms of our foreign policy. well in ukraine we are heavily and mashed in and there are all kinds of innocent lives there and you had a huge package on the floor of congress about passing legislation to help ukraine and not a peep out of any university about civilians being slaughtered there. so if you really look at this, it's hard not to think that there is anti-semitic undertone to an awful lot of this that i really question how much of it is broad humanitarian interest, because you can't have ukraine happening side-by-side with the slaughter and yes some genocide there, with russian forces

slaughtering soldiers who are trying to protect civilians, who have little to no cover from air raids and not a peep out of a single university of a humanitarian interest in helping there. >> this is obviously so loaded. >> you were giving a preach based on tom wright therefore saying that. >> i didn't mean to. it really is such a complicated issue and i think part of this is the grief of these students who have not had any sort of outlet, and i think they're so disconnected. they have not had a normal college experience, but aside from that, there is something about israel that definitely riles people up and i think what scares me the most is the broad chasm between the way that people talk about how this protest, what this protest was, so you have some people who are saying it's like this can buy you woodstock environment and

then you have images and you have accounts from people who are like, there are jews saying i cannot get to my class because they are physically boring me. and i think the nypd came out and said there's quite a large proportion of the people who were arrested who are not students, who are over 30 years old, who are not from new york city and who have been arrested multiple times. so i'm sort of eager to get to the part where we understand what really happened here, what extent of it was outside agitation and then the conditions that made the students really susceptible to something blowing up in this way. >> the prosaic thing that scares me as an employer is that these young people are now going to be coming into the workforce and i'm not talking about protesters specifically. i'm talking about this whole disaffected generation and i think about the fact that they are a generation that is more depressed than any generation before. they are a generation that has

more screen time than any other generation before, less attention span, higher degrees of mental distress and less social skills. i mean a lot of articles have pointed out that these are young people who can't communicate on the basketball court because they don't know how to talk to each other in person. they are so used to communicating via phone and text so all of these young people are coming into a workforce where we already see incredibly high levels of disengagement among young people and i don't know how much care and feeding it's going to require to get these otherwise incredibly intelligent young people up to speed to function in our workplaces. >> i wanted to bring up a point on the difference between i think the ukraine and israel is that these students feel we have influence over israel as opposed to we don't have influence over russia, right? so there's one point -- >> they have certain ability to resist russia in a big way, to try to help civilian population

that is being killed without protection, and not a peep, not a peep, and there's something really awful about that. >> i did just want to say i have outrage over ukraine as well and a lot of students do but i actually know, i have a really close friend who is jewish and is a student at ucla. grad student. and he was at the -- in the encampment. he said all he showed to me was the students were peacefully protesting and this goes to the piece where these two dueling narratives of what's going on on the ground there and we have the anecdotes, yes there is anti-semitism we've seen and some of these are outside agitators as well. that deserves condemnation out right. we also i said need to approach it with empathy and humility and humanizing what these students are going through because some of them have real righteous indignation about what they feel is going on, and

in gaza, and of course obviously october 7 was absolutely horrific and unacceptable and i think what we have to be able to do is hold space for those who are in those protests that are peaceful, as well as also condemning these sides of it that are -- >> now you have to add the complication, if you're president biden, of the fact that donald trump is telling anyone who will listen, these are bidens protest, biden wants this to happen. how does president biden read this nearly impossible needle, given all the factions and an election 186 days away? and so much misinformation being pushed? >> this is where it becomes a real issue because i think what people don't see is that biden has gotten so much flak from these protesters for his policies that are protecting israel and when you say like why israel, why is that, what animates people, i think we are looking at the culmination of not just -- this isn't fully

organic. we are looking at a culmination of years of irgc propaganda that has really tried to get people on the side of hamas and that is something that students are not necessarily fully aware of this entire machine that's behind what they're protesting. >> that's a great point because the point of universities is to educate. clearly decidual, middle east, israel, has hit a chord. and with really rare exception, i have not seen a university say we are canceling classes today, we're going to have mandatory education sessions on the history of israel, the history of the middle east, history of the holocaust, and how we got to where we are today, so you can have students, who instead of chanting things that do sound as if they are supportive of abolishing israel and genocidal acts against israel, that they truly understand what's going on. maybe that wouldn't be

effective but university not trying, under these circumstances, to serve its role in education, rather than trying to negotiate for three weeks with a bunch of people that they should of cleared tents from after day one, is kind of ridiculous. i want to say, though, as a new yorker, the nypd was great. mvp credit to the nypd. the men in blue did their job here in a way that was quick, efficient, professional, without violence, and i think they get credit for that. >> why did they need the nypd? >> because they broke the law, in the first instance. >> did you see the inside of hamilton hall? >> i'm talking the week prior, when they first called the nypd in before they were occupying the whole. they were trying to clear them from the quad, basically.

so why did they need to bring in police to clear a student protest? >> because in many instances it wasn't just students. there was lots of people who were not students there. that's why it's such a complicated problem. the right to protest is hugely important but the university is also in charge of these tunes and if they're looking across their quad and it is filled with nonstudents and agitators -- you have two kids in college, so think about all of those parents who sent their children away to new york city to college. that school has got to be in charge of that and parents could be saying, where is law- enforcement, what's happening on this campus? it's just so comp located. as a parent of college students, how do you see this? >> i have to say when i look at those pictures, i have two kids in college. they are babies. i mean when you talk about these young people who aren't quite fully formed and their development was arrested even more by covid. these are my kids and so when i see these pictures of these young people up against a police line, like i get a little choked up because one of them could be my kids.

so -- but at the same time, i've been in forums with university presidents and listening to parents of all backgrounds talk about the safety of their children, their concerns about the safety of their children. so i understand universities absolutely feel an obligation to maintain, ensure the students who are their feel safe. at the same time, i'm a first amendment absolutist so i am going to stand up for the rights of young people to protest every day of the week. >> especially at universities, which ought to be about free expression. but when it turns into something else is when it's a problem. your points on biden, though, i think is the right point. this is really tough for him. when you look at polls of how the youth vote looked like it was breaking for biden before october 7 and what it looks like now, he really does look like it is going to be very tough to get the kind of turnout from the youth vote that really helped put him over

the line in key swing states. >> we've got to go from free speech to speech that you pay for. it's time for a commercial. everybody is staying put. when we come back our nightcap returns with your mvps of the week. tom gave us a preview of the men in blue. you do not want to miss a. 11th hour of the night cap will be back. back. and stay on top of the market. e*trade from morgan stanley when we say it'll be on time, they expect it to be on time. turn shipping to your advantage. keep those expectations with reliable ground shipping. thanks brandon. with usps ground advantage®. ♪♪ i'll be honest. by the end of the day, my floors...yeesh. but who has the time to clean? that's why i love my swiffer wetjet. it's a quick and easy way to get my floors clean. wetjet absorbs and locks grime deep inside. look at that! swiffer wetjet.

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our nightcap is still here with our mvps of the week. tom, yours first. >> i'm in the blue. you look rate in blue. i mentioned the nypd men in blue. my mvp is the men in blue and orange, the new york knicks. particularly jalen brunson. last night, unbelievable performance, taking the first round of the playoffs against the 76ers, earlier in the week at the garden 20,000 people screaming mvp, mvp. he earned it this week. >> they were also screaming f you to joel embiid. >> may is asian american pacific islander heritage month so my mvp of the week are the asian american ceos. you have three of the four most valuable companies in the world right now run by asian americans and i think that's something to celebrate. >> sure is. >> my runner-up was the hormone melatonin for being the only thing that could take donald down and put him to sleep during the trial but my actual mvp is eric corliss, the time magazine reporter who took the

time to take donald to task over his really authoritarian plans and not only did he do that, he didn't mince words in his characterization of the interview and called it a potential imperial presidency. i think that kind of journalism that speaks truth to power and says what it is in a straightforward way is necessary and powerful, especially in this really fractured media environment. so eric is the guy. >> wasn't it stunning this time magazine piece? trump, who famously had the fake time magazine cover, now finds himself on the cover. he called this a must-read interview. he was pushing it and so was the biden campaign. so this time in history where things are so fractured, the same article, the same piece of information, these two opponents see things in a totally different way, in a country that way. did you read the article? i'm assuming you did. >> is somebody who spends a lot of time in magazines, what i discovered is you can write an

article and people bring their own stuff to it. so i've written really negative articles about companies and they've been like, this is great, because they only read what they want to read. >> trump brought his own crazy and then people interpreted it as they chose. yours my sweet, the man versus bear meme. >> a lot of people don't know what that is because >> we pose a question on the internet, if you were walking in the woods would you rather encounter a man or a bear and a lot of people are saying bear >> over a man? >> yeah, that's kind of the overwhelming response. yeah, people are giving their take on it but what i think is most interesting is that this arose like a week after harvey weinstein's conviction was overturned, and it's like the fact that this is a conversation people are having, would you rather meet a fellow human man or a bear, what does that mean about what people think of men? >> for the first time in a long time -- >> what did you pick? >> i picked a there. yeah. they are supposed to be in the

woods. the man isn't and also there's a formula to deal with bears, i think. i would have to google it, but you know. >> my mvp is going to be a little different this week, so to you all, ahmed, stephanie, sammy, tom, thank you all. i absolutely loved yours but when we come back you're going to meet mine and they are so amazing that i had to bring them in. you won't want to miss it. the 11th hour and the nightcap. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. control of crohn's means everything to me. ask your gastroenterologist about skyrizi. ♪ control is everything to me ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save.

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it is now time for the mvps of the week. mine, at least, and i am saving the best for last. the month of may marks the start of military appreciation month and i cannot think of a better way to celebrate by honoring four brave veterans as my mvps this week. our next guests all served during the vietnam war. three of them flew together as members of the gunslinger squadron and for the first time in over 16 years these men were reunited as part of this brand- new campaign for xfinity wi-fi that you see here on your screen. i'm so honored to bring them together again as my mvps so let's introduce them. former navy commander jack gillett, former navy lieutenant jim lloyd, former navy lieutenant bill moyer and former air force major alastair latham. gentlemen, i am so honored to have you all here and i should mention that our parent company nbc universal and xfinity are

owned by comcast. that is how i know about this extraordinary campaign. but tell me what it was like to do this, first for the three of you to be reunited. what was this like? >> absolutely wonderful. it's like we never left. it's like 50 years didn't occur. we didn't have to act or pretend to be at a reunion last october during the filming because we were at a reunion and it was so natural. >> what was it like for you? to do this project with catherine bigelow, an extraordinary director who has really devoted her career to showcasing the armed forces. >> it was terrific and seeing these guys after 16 years because we had seen each other at a reunion about 16 years ago but it was like being back on the carrier swapping sea stories and consulting each other. >> how often do you all stay in touch? what was this like for you? >> i don't think we stay in

touch all that much but what happened is jim called and wanted to know if we would like to participate. i didn't even ask him what it was. >> but you said yes? >> oh sure. >> we trusted him. >> i didn't think he'd ask if it wasn't important. so that was the whirlwind because i think i talked to him on thursday and on sunday we were in new york. >> wow. alastair, you served in the air force. obviously these men were in the navy. how important is it to stay in touch, to stay connected with the people you serve with? >> it's extremely important. as a matter of fact, i started out in the marine corps. my first six years i was a marine and then i switched over to the air force. but i still keep in touch with a lot of my friends from vietnam and a lot of my friends in college, they were there and i was with them so i enjoyed myself. >> jim, your jet was shot down by a missile in vietnam or could you almost lost your

life. how did it happen and how did you survive? >> it was august 6 of 72 and we've been on cruise for about 4 1/2 months. it was my second flight. it was just getting dark. we wanted to assault a carrier and we were a two plane flight and we went after trucks that were moving in south vietnam, to south vietnam to invade the south and we wanted to stop them and i rolled in and it was pitch dark and that was the savior for me. i rolled over and dropped two bombs. when i pulled off i had two missiles come up at me. i saw the first one and i was able to avoid it. they go so fast, you try to out turn but the second one came up behind me and blew up my left- wing. i ejected about 2000 feet above the ground, screaming straight down, hit the rice paddies in a swing and the fun started and i

was in a place 150 miles north of the dmz, 21 miles inland in a place i was told no americans were ever seen again in the 10 years i was shot down. it was a transition and during that six hours i was on the ground i lost my radio. there was no -- we had little handheld radios and there's no rescue without them. i had to sneak back through where all these guys were standing, use our voices to get back to where i was and go around in the dark and found one, and retreated a second time. i turned the helicopter back first time because it was too dangerous and one time i was going through the rice paddies and i got up on a little division between the two to make less noise when two soldiers came by and found me and i played dead. they stuck me in the back with a gun a couple times to get me to get up and they thought i was incapacitated because i didn't move, when they went off to get help from a couple other guys, about three or four guys that were about 40 yards away, i got up and took off under a hail of gunfire. and all of a sudden on the

radio it was you can't believe what i just went through. the night went like that all night long and finally i brought in a helicopter before daylight. i was 6'2". i can't hide among the vietnamese in a rice paddy and they came in and under a hail of gunfire i hooked on the cable to be hauled up and of course the noise is deafening and nothing happened. i looked up and i landed in the mud and i couldn't get in because the struts were extended because it was holding power to keep from sinking and i will never forget the image of doug hankey, one of the gunners in the back. he reached over this hot gun, this machine gun that he'd been firing, and reaches over and says come on, and grabs me, grabbed onto my flight suit and pulled me in and off we went. >> you two were part of the squadron that rescued jim. do you remember what went through your mind when you found out he was missing? >> when it first happens, what

we hear, we were on the launch and what we hear is beeper beeper coming up noise. when we hear that we actually don't know who's out and they don't make an announcement as to who's down. so we were trying to figure out who it could be. but then it's just trying to do the best you can and we were armed. we had 20 millimeters. we had bombs but we couldn't pinpoint exactly where he was. we weren't going to throw bombs down there on the chance that we would hit him instead. so we made a number of passes. we were on site for quite a wild and then we went offshore, refueled, went back, same thing, circle. try and put out fire, meaning

they didn't launch more missiles, that i recall. they didn't have a lot of aaa. most of it was pretty small arms stuff so it was really hard to pinpoint who to shoot and who not to shoot. >> what an experience. what a brotherhood. what does service mean to you? >> your shipmates become family and so on that particular night i was not on the flight schedule at that time, so i and the rest of the pilots in the squadron were sitting in the radio room listening for any information we had, because ultimately we knew that our squadron had a downed aircraft and we can't do anything about it. is not like in movies. you don't just run up and grab an airplane and go. you have to be on the flight schedule and it's a lot

different. >> my gosh, alastair, how do we as everyday americans, as civilians -- we talked about honoring veterans but we certainly don't do it enough. how can we honor veterans in our daily lives? >> i think this program there has come together with xfinity with honoring us, all of us realize that it's been over 50 years since we were in vietnam and when we came home it was a different scenario. no one wanted us to fight. no one wanted the protection. but freedom doesn't come free. freedom cost. there's a price for freedom and we all came together to make sure that everybody was able to live that life of freedom. so i think we all can say right now the world is a better place because of us. >> right, i am so honored that you're here with me tonight. thank you so, so much. jack, jim, bill, alastair, thank you for your service, thank you for joining me tonight. this campaign is fantastic and i'm honored that we got to showcase it this evening. >> we are honored to be part of

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