pressing him, and he did make this ridiculous statement that across the border towns would not be inflationary, and it is the, it is the soft bigotry of low expectations. we don't even notice anymore a republican candidate for president is an absolute ignoramus when it comes to the simplest things like the tariffs inflationary. >> yes, i agree. the degree to which a presumptive expectation that you can talk ably about is utterly eviscerated and replaced with this nonsense. tim and eric, awesome job, great show, thank you both. that is all in for this week. alex wagner starts right now. >> that time magazine interview was really unbelievable. >> the crime part was amazing.

>> fake news, just fake news, i refuse to accept it. and onto the next question, here we go. are, looking forward to the debates. >> have a good weekend. today was day leavening the first criminal trial of a former american president, the prosecution called to the witness stand one of donald trump's closest confidants, hope hicks, communications director and longtime aide. hicks was constantly by trump 's side navigating each crisis that came his way. and that was why prosecutors used hicks' testimony to take the jury all the way back to one of the most important and memorable moments the 2016 campaign. as a warning, this next part is vulgar. >> i bought some to text in case i start kissing her. you know, i'm automatically attracted to beautiful-- kissing them, it's like a

magnet. and they let you do it, you can do anything. grab them by the [ bleep ] >> the access hollywood tape. a recording of donald trump in 2005, openly advocating sexual assault, bragging about his ability to assault women. when you are a star they let you do it. that tape was first reported by the washington post on october 7th, 2016, a real october surprise in the presidential campaign. it is hard to overstate just what a big deal that tape was at the time. the day that recording was first released hurricane matthew was just off the coast of florida, and news networks had to break into their rolling hurricane coverage to report on the trump tape. but maybe an even better sign of the significance of the excess hollywood tape was the trump campaign's reaction. because for the first time, and perhaps the last time, donald trump was forced to apologize.

>> i've never said i am a perfect person, nor pretended to be someone that i am not. i have said and done things i regret. and the words released today on this more than a decade old video are one of them. anyone who knows me knows these words don't reflect who i am. i said it. i was wrong. and i apologize. >> within 24 hours republicans across the ideological spectrum were coming up to condemn donald trump. >> i was offended and dismayed by-- by what was said and done by mr. trump. i think it is degrading to our women, to our daughters, our granddaughters, and the future generations. >> i'm out. i can no longer in good conscious endorse this person for present. >> step aside. step down.

allow someone else to carry the banner. >> house speaker paul ryan canceled what was supposed to be his first appearance with trump on the campaign trail. mitch mcconnell called on trump to apologize to women and girls everywhere. even tictac was forced to put up a statement saying we find the recent statements and behavior completely inappropriate and unacceptable. so all of that was context for the prosecution today as they tried to show the jury the scandal caused by the access hollywood tape. it grabbed headlines, and it shook the party so much so that the trump campaign was immediately forced into damage control to try and reclaim the narrative. the prosecution was not allowed to play the access hollywood tape itself for the jury, but they entered a transcript of it into the record.

matthew asked hope hicks about the camping's response in the hours after she first was approached for comment by the washington post. what was your first reaction when you heard the tape? hicks, just a little stunned, just it's hard to describe, it's hard to describe, yeah, it was definitely concerning, and i had you know, a good sense that this was going to be a massive story and sort of dominate the news cycle for the next several days at least. colangelo were you concerned about the effect? >> hicks, i think there was consensus among us all that the tape was damaging, and this was a crisis. so the access hollywood tape was a crisis, and the election was a month away. after four weeks of dealing with that follow, something else that happened. hope hicks got another request for comment from another reporter, from the wall street journal. this email was the

prosecution's exhibit 316 in court to today. the request from the journal. here it is. we need comment soon as possible for a story we plan to publish today about american media buying the rights to a story of a former playmate of the year, karen mcdougal, of an affair she told him she had with mr. trump in 2006, when he was married to melania. we plan to report ami purchased the story to kill it. that landed in hope hicks' inbox four days before election day, and it sent the trump campaign into another scramble. here is transmitted after the wall street journal article was published november 15 you discussed the article with mr. trump's staff for mr. trump? >> yes. he was concerned about the story. he was concerned how it would be viewed by his wife, and he wanted to make sure that the newspapers weren't delivered to

their residence that morning. colangelo, did he ask you whether you thought it was likely to affect the campaign ? hicks, everything we talked about in the context of you know, this time period, in this time period, was about whether or not there was an impact on the campaign. and it was in that climate of fear and concern that the prosecution alleges donald trump made secret payments to stormy daniels to save his campaign. joining me now is michael roth failed to investigate reporter for new york times and co- author of the fixers . michael is part of the wall street journal reporting team that won the pulitzer prize in 2019 for its investigation of trump's hush money payments, and he was named checked several times at trial today. michael, thank you for being here. you know, we learned today in

court it was your correspondence that first informed hope hicks about karen mcdougal and the scandal that had yet to break open. i'll just read a little bit. this is matthew colangelo. when did you hear the name karen mcdougal? hicks, november 4, 2016. colangelo what context did you first hear the name karen mcdougal? hicks i received an inquiry from a reporter at the wall street journal. colangelo who is the reporter you heard from? hicks, rothfeld. can you go back and tell us what that was like? >> well we had been chasing this story actually for about a month at the journal. we had received a tip there was a lawyer who is paying off women for trump before the election, and we had narrowed it down to two women, karen mcdougal, and stormy daniels, and were able to obtain the

contract karen mcdougal had with the parent company of the national enquirer which led to the story you were talking about, and the election was rapidly approaching, so obviously we were trying to move quickly to get to the story before the election. we need stormy daniels was also talking about telling her story, but we haven't nailed that down at that point, but we did nail down the karen mcdougal story. >> did you have a sense of how connected donald trump was to the mcdougal payments? >> well, we knew david pecker, who ran the national enquirer, in american media, had a long elation relationship with trump. we had a sense this was done to protect trump. this was the first time anyone reported the term catch and kill in this context, that david pecker caught the story for trump and killed it. we did not have a direct connection at that time. we suspected it, which is why in the days before that email i

sent to hope hicks we were talking to the national inquirer primarily because they paid karen mcdougal, and we suspected strongly that trump was connected to it, but the evidence for that would emerge slowly in the months and years after we reported that story. >> hope hicks is a noted trump campaign spokesperson, who said of the agreement with miss mcdougal, we have no knowledge of any of this. hicks said miss mcdougal's claim of an affair with mr. trump was totally untrue. [ laughter ] in retrospect, what do you make of that-- maybe she didn't realize she was lying, because hope hicks was clearly not that familiar with what happened here. >> yeah, i don't know that hope you about it. she was obviously speaking for the campaign. i believe that she didn't know about it. i don't 100% no, but she says

she did not. donald trump as we now know did have correspondence with david pecker and michael cohen about paying off karen mcdougal over the summer before she was paid in august. so, you know, clearly she was misled, and you know, i suspected that probably was not true, that donald trump did not know about it, but that was the campaign's response, and they denied it. they also denied he had any relationship with stormy daniels. >> the prosecution seems repeatedly trying to make this point the campaign was very concerned about these allegations regardless of whether they were true or not, and this panic it caused internally helps explain why the payments were in turn later made to stormy daniels. can you give a sense as a reporter on the other side what you imagined or knew the reaction to be inside trump world? >> well, i could imagine there was a lot going on at that

time. there was a hillary clinton email scandal. we were a few days out from the election, and we now know from the emails and texts and calls that hope hicks had with michael cohen that they were very concerned about what impact the karen mcdougal story would have. it did not have an earth shattering effect with all the other noise, but in that period of time it would inform the daniels deal was the excess hollywood tape, and that had happened even before we reported the karen mcdougal story around october 7th. so, we reported that in early november. as of when the excess hollywood tape was reported that jumpstarted the, eiko cohen's negotiations with stormy daniels to pay her, and they negotiated the deal a few days after the excess hollywood tape, and she had been trying to sell

that way earlier in the campaign but was unable to. the payment didn't happen until the very end of october. >> right, we know there were many efforts to quash stories that could be harmful to the campaign. hope hicks testified, she reached out to jared kushner, jared kushner has a relationship with rupert murdoch, to see if kushner could entreat murdoch to buy some time. were you made aware of any efforts to slow the publication? >> no, and i think she testified kushner told her he wasn't going to do that, and she should respond, but i can tell you we never at the journal had any interference from rupert murdoch or anyone below him when we were going to publish those stories. we were able to get them in, even the stormy daniels story,

which was more sensitive, because it was the president's lawyer, he was now the president, and involving a pornstar, you know, the journal published that on the front page, there was no qualms. we wanted to be right, that was the main thing. >> obviously you got it done, because it's part of the prosecution's argument today in the first criminal trial of donald trump. michael rothfeld but really appreciate your time and thoughts. the insight is invaluable. coming up, chances are decreasing by the hour as new revelation, some violent, some just really weird, leaked from her forthcoming memoir. hope hicks says trump admitted to her it would have been bad to have the stormy daniels

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so, do your thing like a pro, pain-free. absorbine pro. today's three-hour testimony by former press secretary hope hicks appeared at times to be useful, sort of, maybe, for both the defense and

prosecution. when asked today about trump's reaction to the release of the hollywood tape, it seemed to buttress the how it would be viewed by melania. it was destroying the tapes to prevent his family from finding out. hicks also cast out cohen made payments out of the kindness of his heart. hicks told the court i did not know michael to be a charitable or selfless person. hicks also recounted a conversation she had with trump as president when the stormy daniels schedule eventually surfaced in 2018, saying, i think mr. trump's opinion was it was better to be dealing with it in 2018 than it would have been to have had that story, before the 2016 election. joining me now are jeremy, former assistant district attorney in the manhattan das

office, trial division, and suzanne craig, new york times investigative reporter focused on the finances and taxes of donald trump. what a beat! thank you both for being here today. i have got to ask. let me go to you first, jeremy. the idea trump was covering up story is, that he didn't want his family reading about it, that was somewhat established by hicks' testimony. but, she was also pretty clear that everything that was done in this period was through the lens of the campaign, that this was decidedly a move that would benefit trump's candidacy. doesn't matter if he also had personal reasons for doing it? >> the court can take judicial notice of the affairs, but they are not genuinely exclusive. you could also want to protect the campaign in addition to

wanting to protect your family. that's not what this is about. >> as long as you are doing it for expressly political or campaign purposes it's still violation? >> it's not like you have a self defense claim here. you could have done it for this reason, but also that reason. >> what's your top line on hicks' testimony today? >> i thought the end of the government's examination was very powerful when she put us in the room with that conversation she had with donald trump, when he was president about the payment. first of all, according to her testimony it establishes he knew about the payment, which is very important. he's been saying it was for legal fees. he is now acknowledging the $130,000 payment to stormy daniels' hush money according to the testimony today. i thought that was really powerful. also he talks about how better come out now than 2016. >> right, the piece we just

read. >> i think those were important. i also shop thought she was an effective witness. we have seen a lot of scoundrels. >> and we will see more. >> and we will see more. but, she was a trusted adviser, and she, i think, you don't know why she broke down crying. this may be a lot of reasons that went into that, but it happened right after that testimony that was so powerful. and she transitions again right into her biography about him, and how close she was. and i think she was, i don't think she was overcome with emotion. it showed you the jury just how conflicted she was, but how close they were, and i think that just made her a very credible witness. i am sure the jury it was not lost on anybody in the courtroom. >> i would assume that is mana for the prosecution. trump is

out there on the line saying we are still good friends with david pecker. >> absolutely, and keep in mind she is not there because she wants to be there. she has a real relationship with this man. forget what everyone sees on the outside, whether a tender, close professional personal relationship, there was something real of substance there. she's there telling her story very credible, empathetic, and when you are crying not that i tell my witnesses to specifically cry, but sometimes you let your emotions come out, that's okay. we have emotions all of us. that plays well with the jury. >> i thought the other thing was she said she was paying for her own counsel. we've seen a lot of witnesses come in, the trump organization is paying for their legal fees. she came in on her own.

>> and spoke with an independent voice. you mentioned the word scoundrel. i'm going write to michael cohen, because you say the word , schedule, i feel like a little michael cohen alarm goes off. there were efforts made to impugn cohen's role in the campaign. hicks establishes michael cohen is not a charitable individual, right? that he's not necessarily taking out a home equity loan and paying off stormy daniels, because he's a good guy, this is the exchange, this is from the defense. mr. quinn wasn't part of the campaign, right? sorry. he would insert himself at moments but was not supposed to be on the campaign at official capacity. so he went rogue? hicks, i would call him a fixer . if it was broke he was there to fix it. he was not charitable which seems to buttress his the

argument, but he's not part of the campaign. does that undermine the prosecution argument? >> not much. you don't have to be an actual paid adviser to be part of the campaign. he is trump's attorney, so there's an insensitive there is incentive to help the president. but he's not giving up that kind of dollars. i don't know how much he earns, but post-tax dollars to help trump at the time get elected, so, i think it's a silly noncommon sense argument. i don't think it holds water. it just doesn't work. >> what did you think of? there is this building of a house for michael cohen with strong rafters. you have been at this hearing, sue. it feels like there's been enough testimony that whatever michael cohen says can exist on its own, and there's pretty

clear there is still a rocksolid case. >> sometimes we have to take a step back. it's about a conspiracy and the falsification of his nest records. so right now we are in the conspiracy phase, and that we are building a conspiracy, and we are seeing witnesses move forward. when we got to talk about the payment and donald trump knew about it we will be moving into the falsification of business records. so, i think what they are doing is exactly what you said. they are trying to have a number of witnesses that will support what michael cohen is saying. i have to say i have been there every day. the most powerful witness so far, i hope hicks was powerful, but david pecker. he was talking to trump at every turn of this. and it was very powerful. he put him right in the center of it.

they had an agreement to embellish stories that were bad about donald trump's rivals. that story deserved a pulitzer. but also the catch and kill scheme, and david pecker knew about the cover-up . he was in the middle of arranging those deals with women. and all that is so important, because he was aware of it and testified to it. >> you have a real principle whose repetition has not been impugned, it is buttress by trump world insiders. i've got to ask, because the prosecution has lined up so much data if you will, in their favor. will trump take the stand? >> i would think at this point he would not take the stand. despite the fact the prosecution is doing well, and i think they are getting even homeruns here and there. there is still a big lift ahead. this is not just a misdemeanor, and that would be a loss here.

not to get too far ahead of ourselves. it's really all or nothing. but you know, there is that intent to commit that of the crime, what is that other crime? what is the conspiracy to commit that of the crime in terms of the election? that's not so easy. falsifying records, i'm doing hush money, that's not the crime. so, there is still more to go, but hopefully hicks and david pecker are close to the home runs. >> craig, burning the midnight oil. jeremy saland, suzanne craig, thank you both. the inexplicable decision to share with the world she shut the family dog part of her upcoming memoir which contains more questionable stories. we will get into them coming next.

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there is apparently a new photo up for republican politicians this week, visiting college campuses to condemn pro- palestinian protesters and what

they say is rising anti- semitism on the campuses. the republican party is largely united on the issues of israel, while democrats are not. so republicans are going big here. not only are they flocking to campuses, they are planning to spend the next few months in the lead up to the election holding hearings and conducting investigations and making a central issue on capitol hill. quite politically speaking republicans believe they have a real advantage here. democrats though are in a very different spot. this is how senator bernie sanders described the potential impact on president biden's reelection chances. >> this may be biden's vietnam. lyndon johnson in many respects was a very, very good president domestically, brought forth some major pieces of legislation. he chose not to run in '68 because of opposition to

diffuse on vietnam. i wonder and worry very much president biden is putting himself in a position where he is alienated not just young people, but a lot of the democratic base. >> mark joins me now, thank you for being with me here this friday evening. me first get your reaction to bernie sanders comment that this could be biden's vietnam. >> it is chillingly familiar. you hear this not just from elected officials, but people on the campuses around the protests, they use, i was talking with a bunch of people protesting, and they are obviously not trump fans, but i asked them, how, you are obviously not happy with how the demonstration now is dealing with it. what does that mean for you in november? a lot of them said stay home.

clearly there's a lot of people on the other side were quite impatient and dismissive of biden to begin with. it is an incredibly divisive issue. whether opportunistic or not it is something the republican caucus of the house especially has been very united on, and it's been a very fractured caucus to begin with, and they seem to have found an issue, and we are seeing that and how they fanned out on these campuses across the country. >> yeah, you had a front row seat to one of the gop shall they call it photo opportunities at george washington, where, who were the rabble, and who were the rousers ? which is to say gop members are showing up to condemn the protests, and the fact it is interfering with students' ability to learn. can you talk about the chaos that attends these moments? >> it's quite disingenuous. they will show up, and they are not calming down the situation,

they become a lightning rod. where i was yesterday at george washington university, it is a peaceful protest, it's a big protest that's gone on a while, it is making a big impact on the campus, but you know, for the most part things are proceeding pretty normally. and then you have these five numbers of congress show up on the oversight committee to do research. they clearly not only want a photo op, and my sense was they planned themselves in the middle of everything and were kind of looking for something of a fight, a moment that could go viral. certainly lauren boebert and byron donalds were kind of clapping back at the hecklers in some ways. obviously they are going to be heckled. they were clearly looking for something they could take with them back to fox news. >> they were clapping back at the hecklers. was there any exchange of substance about the central

issue on this? the war in gaza? >> i wouldn't call it an exchange. their views are pretty yeah, they are shoulder to shoulder. we are against anti-semitism and will investigate all the anti-semitism on campus. which, how does that work? clearly i mean it's an issue that has great deal of political wait for them. they seem to think it can win them a lot of points. also again it's worth pointing out the disingenuousness of what they don't tend to condemn , things around charlottesville, things around white supremacy, around various trump rallies you see, it is selective, but they seem to think the democrats don't have a coherent answer for it. at this point there, they certainly seem to be dealing with an advantage. >> the polling has changed, the gallup poll, american approval of military action in gaza.

50% approval in november. march, 36% approval. i mean, i understand why republicans feel like they are winning on this issue, but that doesn't seem to be any inkling or even, like, notion, that public opinion could change on this to their disadvantage the longer this goes on. >> i think so, and i think you have to look within the democratic base. certainly biden and democrats in general are quite vulnerable now on young voters, black and brown voters to some degree, and third-party candidates. this issue makes them vulnerable, because they have a place to go. it's not going to be trouble probably, but it really could erode the base. where the numbers will go down as far as the american involvement in this, there is obviously limited patience. the

democrats are sort of racing the clock more than the republicans do, because i think this is an issue they have seemed in agreement on. >> going to a campus and see what's happening there, school will be letting out for the summer. that's the thing about school, summers are usually free. will the republican party to, well, can they fractured the democratic base and drum up photo opportunities if there are no students left on campus? >> yeah, i think so. another few weeks. we are also coming up to a situation where graduations may be disrupted or canceled all together, which sort of gives them a whole other body of evidence to show up at in some ways. so yeah, if you look through the next few weeks or next month, going up to the democratic

convention, there's a lot of theoretical chaos that democrats might have to deal with, that republicans could be opportunistic in trying to make some points on. >> a convention in chicago, what could go wrong. all right, mark leibovich, thank you for joining me. i appreciate it, my friend. coming up, there is no going back on telling the world you shot your own dog. and a goat. now it appears governor of south dakota has simply been making up stories about meetings with double world leaders. that is next. the farmer's dog is fresh food made with whole meat and veggies. it's not dry food. it's not wet food. it's just real food. it's an idea whose time has come. ma, ma, ma— ( clears throat ) for fast sore throat relief, try vicks vapocool drops. with two times more menthol per drop, and powerful vicks vapors to vaporize sore throat pain. vicks vapocool drops.

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you know how the fake news works. they leave out some or most of the facts of the story. the truth of the story is that this was working dog, and it was not a puppy. it was a dog that was extremely dangerous. i am a dog lover. i've trained dogs for years. i've been around hundreds of them of course, and so this was a tough situation. dogs that have this kind of a problem, that have been through training for months, they are dangerous, and responsible owner does what they need to do, and what the law will allow. >> what's the adage, if you explain why you shot the family pet you're losing? especially when you're nationally recognized politician explaining why you took a 14-month-old dog named cricket out to a gravel pit and

executed her at point blank range. south dakota governor, kristi noem's unfathomable decision to include this anecdote in her upcoming memoir has sparked outrage and also captivated the party, and not in a good way. former president trump is reportedly disgusted by the story. rolling stone reports today trump can't stop talking about it, and he has repeatedly brought up the incident with his aides. today, colorado's jefferson county republicans announced they canceled the governor's fundraiser tomorrow supposedly for safety reasons. but, that is not the only controversial story in this book. in the very aptly titled memoir, no going back, noem writes, i remember when i met with north korean dictator kim jong in un. i'm sure he underestimated me, having no idea i was a children's pastor.

now noem 's staffers have no memory of the meeting. the team is now admitting the story is not true. kristi noem never actually met with kim jong un. noem also writes she was slated to meet the french president, emmanuel macron. after calling for a cease-fire in the israel hamas war noem claims i decided to cancel. the dakota scout was on this one, too. the scout confirmed that emmanuel macron never had a meeting scheduled with kristi . the spokesman for noem says we've been made aware the publisher will be addressed addressing conflated world leaders' names in the book before it is released. unfortunately for governor noem both of the stories about her

diplomatic achievements appear to be false, but the story about shooting her own dog is most certainly true. coming up, is a 1968 all over again, or is it 2020? neither one seems like a great choice. susan glasser joins me to discuss coming up next. good to go off the grid. good to go nonstop. with cabenuva, there's no pausing for daily hiv pills. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete, long-acting hiv treatment you can get every other month. it's two injections from a healthcare provider. just 6 times a year. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients or if you're taking certain medicines which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions, post-injection reactions, liver problems, and depression. if you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms, stop cabenuva and get medical help right away. tell your doctor if you have liver or kidney problems,

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are we living through 1968 all over again? there are springtime protests on college campuses against an ongoing, brutal war, protests that have been met with mass arrests by police in riot gear, much like in 1968, the democratic national convention will be held in chicago. there isn't even a man named robert f kennedy attempting to run for president. history is certainly rhyming here. as susan glasser puts it in "the new yorker" this week, it should be read as a cautionary tale. there is another date that should be kept front of mind, this one from the not so distant past, the year 2020. this week when asked why the milwaukee journal sentinel whether trump would accept the results of this november's election, he replied, "if everything is honest, i will accept the results. if it is not, you have to fight for the right of the country." sound familiar? joining me now is the author of that piece, susan glasser, staff writer at "the new

yorker". susan, thank you for joining me and for paying attention to what i thought was the most explosive statement of the week. we talked about it yesterday on this show but does it surprise you how little a mark on the national radar trump's statement from milwaukee was, that he might not accept the results of this november election and that fighting might be the necessary outcome? >> truly. i think it is a marker of how in word we have become to the outrageous and dangerous and out of control rhetoric that comes from trump that we often have a hard time, i think the sort of saying wait a minute, this is news, this is something he hasn't said before, let's put this on the record. in may of the election year, he's already stating he will not accept the results of the election if he loses. more than that, he's echoing very explicitly his words from 2020 and then you have to fight if it is not the outcome that t you want. i think that that is a statement that would have been major news from any candidate

in our lifetimes had it been repeated. it was not front page news in the leading national news organizations and that was a mistake. >> i absolutely understand the impulse to talk this up to the outrageous signature, the outrage, the outlandish is normalized at this point that it is hard to get outraged as often as we need to and should be. i think that, tom nichols has a point in "the atlantic," about our american distaste for truly imagining failure. this is what he writes. "americans simply cannot imagine how badly trump's first term might have turned out. our minds are not equipped to embrace how fast democracy could integrate. we can better imagine alien invasions then we can and territory urine america. is that part of the inherently optimistic spirit of america and really looking back and potentially learning the

lessons that mere history might teach us? >> in my view, alex, it turned out pretty badly that we had the first president in american history to seek to overturn the results of an election and to refuse to go along, essentially, with the democratic bargain that we have in this country, which is that win or lose, you accept the outcome of elections. to my thinking, having a violent attack on the u.s. capitol in an effort to stop the certification of the vote was pretty much a bad outcome and a terrible thing to have happened to the u.s. to the point about it is not a failure of imagination. i just think that we are in a situation where people have gotten too caught up in their own thinking around donald trump to do the basics, the basic work of understanding. that is news. when the

republican nominee for president says he won't accept the outcome of the election, not only is that news, that's a bigger news than just about anything else that happened that day. i just think that it is one of those moments that we will look back on, just as we now look back and say donald trump first set in may of 2020 that it was a rigged election. that was the first time he said that, in 2020. months before there was any election. that was a moment it should have been marked as well. >> it is certainly a signal moment. i do not disagree with you beer. you write in your piece for talking about a this is biden's peril and opportunity. "for now, biden seems to have taken the advice of james trout, the lesson of 1968 is while the fireworks are on the left, the votes are on the right." can you talk more about how you understand that? >> i think we saw it from joe biden. another phrase that he used in

that piece, which was i thought on the mark was to say, to call biden essentially a moderate liberal in an age of extremism as hubert humphrey was and of the 1968 analogy does not bode too well for democrats. obviously, richard nixon, the republican that year, was able to take advantage of the democrats in fighting, the uproar and upheaval among young progressive students who were disillusioned with the leadership of their own party, the general feeling of chaos in the country and nixon ran a law and order campaign and won the presidency. it is not a great analogy. i still don't really understand, to be honest, my democrats are risking the fate of history by going back to chicago this year for their convention. was that really necessary? but, to the