isabelle brourman gets tonight's last word.

i'm going back to the courtroom tomorrow. i will be back here tomorrow at 10:00 p.m., on the last word, to report it all again tomorrow night. the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts now. start tonight, dramatic moments in donald trump's criminal trial as his lawyers go after a key prosecution witness. what happened in the courtroom and why trump says he might not testify anymore. plus, today's surprise speech from president biden. what he said about the unrest on college campuses. and later, i'm talking to you, robert de niro. the legendary actor sounds the alarm about another trump term, as the 11th hour gets underway on this thursday night. good evening once again. i am stephanie ruhle. we are 187 days away from the election and today donald trump's attorneys were on

attack mode in his new york criminal trial. they went after key witness keith davidson, the lawyer who negotiated hush money deals for stormy daniels and karen mcdougal, attacking his testimony and using him to go after another star witness, michael cohen. here is my colleague, laura jarrett, with more. >> reporter: former president trump arriving at court today, watching his defense team go on offense, casting a key witness as out to extort him for money. the defense hoping to discredit keith davidson, the lawyer who negotiated payoffs for stormy daniels and karen mcdougal. both threatened to go public with stories of sex with mr. trump ahead of the 2016 election. trump has denied the allegations of both women and denied any advanced knowledge of the payoffs. the defense suggested davidson had a habit of shaking down celebrities like charlie sheen for money. davidson said he never extorted anyone, testifying at length

about his negotiations with michael cohen, but admitting today he never met or spoke to the former president. instead he dealt exclusively with cohen, who he painted with desperate and despondent that then president trump would not make him attorney general or white house chief of staff, describing a phone call where cohen limited, i can't believe i'm not going to washington. saying, he had saved trump so many times, you don't even know. testifying about cohen, i thought he was going to kill himself. a helpful point for the defense as it tries to cast cohen as having annexed to grind. the former president is accused of illegally doctoring records to disguise payments to cohen, making cohen's testimony critical for prosecutors who are now seeking additional fines against mr. trump, saying he violated a gag order again by calling his former fix her a liar. will the defense argues the former president should be allowed to defend himself against frequent criticism.

>> i am unconstitutionally gagged. i'm not even supposed to be talking to you, because he gagged me. >> reporter: the judge has not ruled, but expressed concern about the statements and the effect they might have on other witnesses. >> the trial resumes tomorrow morning with a forensic analyst from the da's office back on the witness stand. with that, let's get started tonight with the help of our panel. peter baker joins us, chief white house correspondent for the new york times. tim o'brien is here. he wrote the book, trump nation. and joining us, the state attorney for palm beach county. and the author of the book, her honor, my life on the bench, what works, what is broken and how to change it, ladoris cordell.

tim, you get to go first. you were in the courtroom today. did donald trump see you? i know he saw my client -- my colleague lawrence o'donnell. >> he didn't see me because i was in the overflow room across the hall from him. one of the things we will see in this trial as it continues is an accumulation of the same kind of evidence and same people doing the same nefarious things and i think it is plain on their face what it is about. i don't think there is much doubt at this point that they were trying to pay off people to be quiet. they were paying them off in order to get a foot up in the election. i think the issue is whether or not you go from this series of misdemeanors to a felony and election interference and that is ultimately i think how the jury is going to land on this. along the way we are getting this very cd tale about the underbelly of power and money and politics in new york city. >> okay, but is there any chance people hear that and say that

is just how nasty new york city big business works? could it look like they are all kind of no good guys, but not necessarily trump is a criminal here. >> yes, i think that is where it tips around, ultimately what is the impact of this case? i think it is sort of an unknown. i think back to the january 6 hearings where people were saying american voters had forgotten about january 6 and did not care about it and once the hearings and the tail got out in public, it mattered to voters and made them think about what those events meant. i think this trial may not end up legally being consequential for donald trump. it could be. i don't know. i do think every day he is sitting in there and there is this referendum on how he ruled as a husband and how he conducted himself as a businessman and what he was capable of. i think at the end of the day this election is going to come down to a small slice of

independent and moderate voters in six or seven states so i think care about this stuff and i think voters on the left and right are already decided. cases like this are, i think, consequential for that group of people. what they are seeing is donald trump is shabby and donald trump allows a porn start to come to the office of trump tower, 30 floors beneath his residence where his wife was with their four-month-old child. that is the same man saying i can't get out of court to attend my son's graduation. and i think they are weighing that for what it is, which is that he did not really care at the end of the day about how his wife felt about these things. he did it anyway and once it came out to the open he tried very hard to bury it.

>> not from his wife, but from the american voter. >> from both. >> yes. donald trump has expressed he is angry. he does not feel his defense team is aggressive enough. he wants his roy cohen, omitting the fact that he was disgraced and disbarred, so if he was alive today he would not be able to represent donald trump. his team was the most aggressive we have seen today. you think that was a good move for them? >> i didn't think they did well today. they missed the mark. >> did they do well any other day? >> no, i think it is going well for the prosecution. keep davidson is an important witness and they went after him in a big way. saying that he is an extortionist. i think it missed its mark because trump is on trial for falsification of business records and that allegedly led to another crime, campaign- finance violations. by claiming he has a victim of

extortion, it does not help his defense. it isn't magic fairy dust were you sprinkle some extortion over these charges and they go away. i think in their zest to be aggressive they did not help the defense very much. >> the lawyer on the stand, keith davidson, recalled worrying on election night that the hush money swayed to the election. he actually texted the executive editor of the inquirer and said what have we done? how crucial is that point to the prosecution? >> it is extremely crucial. this whole trial tells a story and the prosecution has its story. defense has its own story. so the prosecution's story, everything is building one thing on the next and everything they can get, particularly text messages. phone calls. recordings. all of that is what jurors love to hear. so this was just a critical

piece of the story that is building each day that this trial goes on. >> today the jury heard, excuse me, heard a recording. they actually heard the recording of a conversation between donald trump and michael: in 2016 about the financing of the hush money payment to stormy daniels. how important is evidence like that? >> it is important because one of chomsky defenses is that he knew nothing. the defense from hogan's heroes. >> you are dating yourself here. >> i am turning 53 tomorrow. so, when you can put trump in the room with michael cohen or a conversation with cohen and david pecker, that shows he has the knowledge. the bigger question to me is can you place trump with the decision to falsify the business records? that is the only piece of the puzzle i think is missing. this recording is powerful because people lie, but recordings don't. >> i want to stay on that

point, because trump's lawyers can attack michael cohen all they want, but when you've got a recording like this, you can't refute it. could these primary sources make a difference in this case? >> the witness for the prosecution today was donald trump. it was his own voice. as we said you can't really refute that and i think the more you hear his voice, the more it seems real. the more it is not just a lot of sleazy characters you may not find reputable. there is actually a main character and the main character is donald trump. it is not surprising that somebody charged with a crime is surrounded by people who may not be the most reputable people in the world. that is the bane of every prosecutor trying to prove a case like this, but juries time and time again have been able to make that distinction and understand witnesses who are checkered in their own past, it does not mean they are not telling what is really going on and there is a lot of evidence

that donald trump tried to make sure the american public did not know about this. use the money and the question becomes as we said, whether it becomes a felony. how much we can prove the falsification of businesses. i think on the main actions, many americans of known this for several years. >> i want to listen to what donald trump said on the campaign trail yesterday on his day off. >> it is no crime. i have a crooked judge, a totally conflicted judge. unfortunately it is a 95% or so democrat area. other than that, things are wonderful. >> first, let's fact check for our audience. a democrat area. the cases tried in manhattan because it is where the alleged crimes were committed, but when you were a judge did you ever experience anything remotely like this from a defendant? >> no, i was a trial court judge for nearly 20 years and

never, ever have i heard judges denigrated in this fashion. it is really sad to me because there were a lot of people listening. the world is listening, but donald trump's followers are listening to this and some may be persuaded. why give any respect to the court system, to judges, to the process, when in fact an independent judiciary is the third leg of a democracy. you have the executive, the legislative and the judiciary and he has repeatedly tearing it down, constantly. which is why the gag order is in effect, but the judge did not apply it to himself. i'm not quite sure why, because it is nothing to do with the judge being thin-skinned. this is really tearing apart his attempt to tear apart our judiciary. the gag order, that is fine. trying to stop donald trump

from doing this, but really effective because the punishment, at least as far as fines go, don't mean a thing to him. he is not being deterred at all. >> judge, i also want to share what trump said today when he was asked if he would testify and i want to remind our audience he said i want to testify. he is changing his tune. watch this. >> i would love to answer that question. it is a very easy question. the easiest question so far, but i'm not allowed to testify because this judges totally can elected. has me under an unconstitutional gag order. >> not allowed to testify. i cannot even believe i need to ask you this, but for the record, can a gag order prevent someone from testifying? judge cordell? >> know and i think what donald trump has done is used the wrong word. he meant i can't talk to you about this and he is using the word testify because he is ignorant about the court process and i think unwilling

to really learn what this process is about and how things are done. so no, of course, if he chooses to testify, that is his right and even if his attorneys tell him we don't want you to testify, they have not proven their case, if he decides he wants to do it he can testify and cannot be stopped. >> what is absurd to me is that people are going to believe him. i'm going to see my parents on sunday night and my mother is going to say something like, can you believe donald trump is not even going to be able to tell his story because the judge gave him a gag order? a complete lie he will tell the american people and there will be those out there who will believe it, hook, line, and sinker. today president biden give a surprise speech about the protests and arrests on college campuses. i want you to watch this. >> we have all seen images and they put to the test to fundamental american principles.

excuse me. the first is the right to free speech and of people to peacefully assemble and make their voices heard. the second is the rule of law, both must be upheld. it is basically a matter of fairness. a matter of what is right. the right to protest and not the right to cause chaos. >> peter, this is such a difficult needle for the president of thread. this speech was not on his schedule. why did he decide to do it now? >> it's been 10 days since he said anything at all about campus protest. the pressure was really building not just for republicans who were chiding him for not speaking up, but for democrats who were really nervous and frustrated that he was not giving a more forceful answer and leaving it to the spokespeople to address. the images people have been seeing on their television screens are disturbing and democrats wanted their president to come out and say

what they meant by the statement. yes to protests, no to chaos and violence and especially to anti-semitism. that was a line democrats wanted him to draw and he did. he got criticism from the left, saying he was too harsh on protesters who were not violent because he swept them all with the same brush. republicans were not satisfied by his violence and will continue to try to wrap anti- semitism around his neck, but remember they are protesting president biden. he tried to come out and see the balance of the free speech rights, even people who do not agree with him against the idea of disruption and the violence we have seen on campuses. >> thank you so much. thank you all for starting us off tonight. peter, tim, dave, judge cordell, thanks for joining us. before we go to break let's check in on our dj t tracker. it finished the day nearly $49

per share, up almost 8% from yesterday. meanwhile the company ceo, i can't even believe it when i say his name, the ceo, devon nunez, is again pushing for investigations into companies he says are illicitly short selling the stock. he wants congress and the nasdaq to investigate. i would like him to tell us who the buyers of the stock car and if they care about this company, or if it is a beautiful way to avoid all campaign-finance donation regulations and that is the way they are actually giving to his campaign. that is what i would love to know the answer to. maybe he can answer, but in the meantime we will keep watching trump media stock. remember, his stake is currently worth about $5 billion. $5 billion on paper, but that is still a really big number. we are going to keep you up at night because you should know what is going on, every day. when we return, trump says

he will only accept the 2024 election results if they are honest, which we all know is code for if he wins. our political panel is here to talk about it. and later, robert de niro, one of new york's favorite sons, unleashes on his least favorite new yorker. i bet you can guess who that is. "the 11th hour" just getting underway on a thursday night. that offered me bulkamid - a life-changing and fda approved non-drug solution for my condition called stress incontinence it really works, and the relief can last for years. take the next step at findrealrelief.com to arrange an appointment with an expert physician to determine if bulkamid is right for you. results and experiences may vary. move beyond the leaks.

i have moderate to severe crohn's disease. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are looking up, i've got symptom relief. ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements. skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. and the majority of people experienced long-lasting remission at one year. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. ♪ now's the time to ask your gastroenterologist how you can take control of your crohn's with skyrizi. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save.

hey, grab more delectables. you know, that lickable cat treat? de-lick-able delectables? yes, just hurry. hmm. it must be delicious. delectables lickable treat. higher shipping rates may be “the cost of doing business...” but at what cost? turn shipping to your advantage. with low cost ground shipping from the united states postal service. ♪♪

-we're done. -what about these? looks right. nooo... nooo... quick, the quicker picker upper! bounty absorbs spills like a sponge. and is 2x more absorbent so you can use less. bounty, the quicker picker upper.

business. and is 2x more absorbent so you can use less. it's not a nine-to-five proposition. it's all day and into the night. it's all the things that keep this world turning. the go-tos that keep us going. the places we cheer. and check in. they all choose the advanced network solutions and round the clock partnership from comcast business. see why comcast business powers more small businesses than anyone else. get started for $49.99 a month plus ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. don't wait- call today. call it deja vu, not the

good kind. donald trump will not commit to accepting the election results if he loses. that is what he said in an interview with a wisconsin paper on wednesday. he also falsely claimed, or lied, yet again, that he won wisconsin in 2020. but he did not and there was no evidence of fraud in wisconsin. those results were confirmed by two recounts, both paid for by donald trump himself. not to mention a court ruling, state audit and a study by a conservative legal friend -- legal firm. let's bring in my friend and cohost of the weekend and also the spokesperson for president harris. and stuart stevens is here, a veteran of the met romney and george w. bush campaigns, now with the lincoln project. these elections are honest. trump just does not like it when he loses. what is your take? >> i worked in elections for

decades. there is not any voter fraud that matters in this country at all. people know this. what trump is really doing is we were talking about it in an earlier segment. an assault on all of these principles. he attacks the judiciary. attacks the voting system. the tax law and order when he says he will pardon people with convicted felonies trying to end the peaceful transition of power. this is really unprecedented and why the republican party has become an authoritarian movement and not a normal political party. >> symone, what do you think? >> i think he is right and to be clear, trump does it on purpose. folks may remember the notorious interview with lesley stahl. she did a panel discussion after that interview where she was talking about what donald trump said to her.

it was just she and her producer in the room and she said donald trump called the press the enemy of the people, right then and there. she said it is just us here, you can turn it off. like you really believe that? he said you know why i say these things? so that when you criticize me or say that i said something, they don't believe you, they believe me. donald trump knows what he is doing. when he says these things. when he hence that, if it is fair, i don't know, as long as it turns out the way we all think it will. he knows exactly what he is doing and he has a very particular message that he himself has seen that works. >> biden also broke his silence today on the campus protests. he defended free speech, but he clearly and aggressively condemned violence and anti- semitism. how difficult a needle as this for the president of thread?

>> i thought it was an important speech that he gave today. to me this is joe biden at his best. kind of a common sense approach where you look at this and go this is not what is happening. we cannot approve of it. you have to balance these rights. really that is what a leader should do. it is sort of what parents do. what coaches do, the ones that are the best. his -- it is something that should be very familiar to the american people. when he is in this role he is winning and i think it was a good move for him. >> symone, what do you think? he is dealing with the fact that trump and his allies are out there falsely tying the president to these protest, which he has absolutely nothing to do with. >> absolutely which is why i think what the president himself said, telling people what is true is very important here. i have read a lot and seen a lot since this is happened,

since the president's remarks, and lots of folks said look at democrats walking away from the protests. very different from 2020. it backfired on them. i will tell people that what the president said today is very similar, if not almost exact, to what he said in the aftermath of the george floyd protests in 2020. he made the same comments about peaceful protests. the same comments about not vandalizing things. obviously george floyd protests did not have anything to do with islamophobia or anti- semitism, so those were new elements. what you heard from the president today is consistent and frankly from my experience what he actually believes. this, though, you can't please everybody, right? joe biden has to go out and say what he believes and also be very clear about what he is doing. we've heard a lot about what is happening on some of the

campuses across the country. i think frankly the coverage seems to paint with a broad stroke brush and does not speak to the fact that college students are not a monolith. that inside these campuses, the issues and protesters and those advocating for various issues are not monolithic and frankly we have not even distinguished between gen z and millennial's. people have to be very clear that we might be talking about specific instances, but the broader thing is, what is happening with the negotiations in cairo? the president has to be in positions where he can talk about that. he did a little bit today. i think the campaign and white house need to give him more spaces to do just that, to explain what is happening to the american people. >> symone, stuart, thank you both for being here. when we come back, we know that a potential trump second term seeks a lot more power over federal agencies, but now his allies have their eyes on the federal reserve. we will explain on the other

side of the break why that would be an absolute disaster for our economy. that and more when "the 11th hour" continues. with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. (restaurant noise) [announcer] introducing allison's plaque psoriasis. she thinks her flaky gray patches are all people see. otezla is the #1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. allison! over here! otezla can help you get clearer skin and reduce itching and flaking. with no routine blood tests required. doctors have been prescribing otezla for over a decade. otezla is also approved to treat psoriatic arthritis. don't use otezla if you're allergic to it. serious allergic reactions can happen. otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting.

some people taking otezla had depression, suicidal thoughts or weight loss. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. ♪♪ [announcer] with clearer skin girls' day out is a good day out. live in the moment. ask your doctor about otezla. our biggest challenge? uncertainty. hidden fees, surcharges... who knows what to expect! turn shipping to your advantage. keep it simple...with clear, upfront pricing. with usps ground advantage®. ♪♪ ( ♪♪ ) i thought water would help with these dry spots. that's lawn disease. but scotts healthy plus will cure it! lawn disease? been going around. so like other people have it and it's not... pick up a bag of the new

scotts turf builder healthy plus lawn food today. feed your lawn. feed it. (♪♪) (♪♪) try dietary supplements from voltaren, for healthy joints.

we have talked a lot about the ways donald trump wants to expand his power if he were to have a second term. the wall street journal is reporting their plans from people close to trump to chip

away at the independence of the federal reserve. it is not clear if donald trump has signed off on those plans, but the journal says trump has suggested to several people that he wants a say in setting interest rates. that means no independence. his campaign did not deny that reporting. joining me now is cnbc analyst and lauren, reporter for the new york times. explained to us, the feds independence is crucially important to the health of our economy. what would it look like if the white house controlled it? >> well, we don't know, but we can dress -- we can guess what trump would want, which is low interest rates. sometimes the fed chair has to do unpopular things, like keep interest rates up. if you have someone that is purely thinking in a way that is acting at the beck and call

of the president, for political means, you risk zero interest rates forever, and inflationary environment, a weak dollar and that could really impact the strength of the whole u.s. economy. >> whether or not it was donald trump, here we are in an election year and we heard the fed is not going to cut interest rates. if any president had influence over the fed and it is 188 days to the election, i have a sinking feeling they would be pushing to cut rates. >> in trumpian terms we would see a financial crisis the likes of which the country had never seen before if the president had any word, and particularly this former president, had any say in the ultimate decision and where interest-rate should go. the fed has done a pretty good job and at this juncture they have put off any potential rate cuts until they see more improvement on that front, so they are doing the hard work that needs to be done by an independent central bank.

you don't want a president getting involved. >> consumer confidence is dipping again. is that because inflation is so high? whether you are talking about insurance or rent or buying a house or buying a sandwich, life is expensive. now consumers are starting to say, hold on a minute. i'm just not paying this. >> it has been this challenge for biden for the past year or so where you have some strong economic indicators and consumers are not feeling it. a lot of it is inflation and the question is companies that are taking advantage at the moment and raising their prices or is it economic factors? that is the big question for the biden administration to deal with. >> here's the thing, because we are hearing more and more companies report that they are starting to see a slowdown. >> starbucks being one of them. >> starbucks in a big way. can these companies afford to have less customers now that they are charging so much? if i ran a sandwich shop i

don't need a line around the corner if i can charge $25 a pop. which a lot of them are. >> but your revenues slow and you are forced to cut prices because demand is dropping off. that is the way economics works. then maybe you start laying off people and that can cascade into a much broader problem for the economy that can lead to rising unemployment and inflation. the cure for high prices they say is high prices and that is what we are starting to see here. >> not that anyone is looking for deflation and i don't want to get wonky on you -- >> can't we get wonky for a minute? >> we will definitely put our audiences sleep at 11:30 at night doing that. but in a way isn't that what the a -- what the fed wants? if we are slowing down the spending, that might be a positive direction. >> absolutely and the other question the fed is looking for

and we will see the numbers tomorrow, is the labor market. our wages still going up? is hiring still going up? those are the factors the fed will be looking at very closely. >> i want to talk about the north dakota governor, doug burgum. i want to share something he said earlier. watch this. >> these policies are in the right direction. if you are a billionaire and you care about your shareholders, care about your family, care about your grandkids, you should vote for someone who will bring prosperity to america and peace to the world. that is what president trump will do. >> donald trump wants tariffs, tax cuts, and monetary policy that would drive up inflation. that is not good for shareholders. is the reason the quote unquote billionaire should like donald trump is the real reason is he will cut corporate taxes and every loophole for the superrich. >> this would be the reverse robin hood scenario in which the poor once again finance the rich as we saw with the prior

tax cut. this is poor policy and the additional piece you did not mention is he also wants mass deportation of immigrants, who over the last several years have filled gaps in our labor force, not taken jobs from nativeborn workers who are in decline. the combination of the policies he has proposed would be inflationary simultaneously. >> think you for being here. your first visit to "the 11th hour". ron, always a pleasure. when we return, my dream interview, robert de niro and his worst nightmare. our key conversation when "the 11th hour" continues. an alternative to pills, voltaren is a clinically proven arthritis pain relief gel, which penetrates deep to target the source of pain with nonsteroidal

anti-inflammatory medicine directly at the source. voltaren, the joy of movement. sometimes, the lows of bipolar depression feel darkest before dawn. with caplyta, there's a chance to let in the lyte™. caplyta is proven to deliver significant relief across bipolar depression. unlike some medicines that only treat bipolar i, caplyta treats both bipolar i and ii depression. and in clinical trials, movement disorders and weight gain were not common. call your doctor about sudden mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants may increase these risks in young adults. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report fever, confusion, stiff or uncontrollable muscle movements which may be life threatening or permanent. these aren't all the serious side effects. caplyta can help you let in the lyte™. ask your doctor about caplyta. find savings and support at caplyta.com

( ♪♪ ) my name is jaxon, and i have spastic cerebral palsy. it's a mouthful.

one of the harder things is the little things that i need help with: getting dressed, brushing your teeth, being able to go out with your friends by yourself. those are hard because you don't want help, but you need it. children like jaxon need continued support for the rest of their lives. whoa, whoa, whoa. and you can help. please join easterseals right now, with your monthly gift. i'm almost there. the kids that you are helping, their goal is to be as independent as they can. these therapies help my son to achieve that goal. easterseals offers important disability and community services that can change a life forever. please, go online, call or scan the qr code right now

with your gift of just $19 a month. it really does make a difference. strengthening with easterseals helped me realize i can get through hard things. don't give up. keep trying. even better! please visit helpeasterseals.com, call or scan the qr code on your screen with your gift of $19 a month and we'll send you this t-shirt as a thank you. mother: your help and your support, the need for it is endless. jaxon: thank you, 'cause there's a lot of people with disabilities out there. people like me. please join easterseals with your monthly gift right now. ( ♪♪ )

he is so blatantly stupid. he has a punk. he is a dog. he is a pig. he is a con. this was robert de niro's warning about donald trump in 2016. now he says the threat from donald trump is twice as bad and calls the former president pure evil. today we set down blocks away from where defendant trump was sitting in court and an arrow made his case. over the last eight years we've heard you talk about the former president. we've heard you call him a fraud, a con artist. he is a new yorker like you and

you have watched this random bs for decades and despite that he became president. now we are watching him 10 blocks from where we are now, sitting in a courtroom as a criminal defendant. what you think about that. >> i think how absurd it is and this could be the case it could be it for him. it is the least important in many ways and yet it is the one that could be tried and finished. in well enough time for people to take that in. >> does it give you some sense, not of joy, but of relief at least that he is potentially facing some consequences, because as you said before, this guy is a con artist and he has gotten away with it for

years. >> he is more than that to me. he is sick. really, genuinely a sick person that somehow has been allowed into our system. and i am tired of calling him names. he just can't be anywhere near the office of the presidency. >> you have played a lot of bad guys. would you ever play donald trump? >> never. there is nothing about him, there is not one redeeming thing that i can see, ever, ever. it is funny. i was just thinking that he actually became president. he could have done good things. instead he had to do it all wrong and as we know, so narcissistic and self-centered. >> what do you say to those who say i don't like the guy, but

i'm going to vote for him. what is your message to them? >> i don't understand it. i don't think they understand how dangerous it will be if he ever becomes president. i don't think they really understand. historically, from what i have seen, even in germany, they had it with hitler. don't take him seriously. he looks like a clown and acts like a clown. these guys look like clowns and somehow that element of society identifies in some ways with him, but it would be chaos beyond our imagination. there is no mystery. he is right out front and what he says is what it will be if he becomes president. >> do you think our democracy is at risk in this election? >> i think that it is. i always keep saying, democracy is great, of course, but democracy people take for granted. it is a word some people don't

even understand. it is about right and wrong. the guy is a monster and beyond wrong. it is almost like he wants to do the most horrible things he can think of in order to get a rise out of us. i don't know what it is, but he has been doing it and doing it and it is [ bleep ] scary. excuse my french. >> do you have any concerns for the future of the arts if he were to become president? he already said he wants to go after his enemies, wants to go after journalists and the news media. what about your industry? >> the only thing i can think is what will happen is he will go after these things impulsively and he will be stopped. there will be pushback, a lot of it, and as much pushback as needed in the streets. conflict, that could happen. civil strife because -- but he will try it. >> you have no upside in having

this conversation. in speaking out against donald trump. you are making yourself a target. the interview will air and he will immediately find a reason to talk bad about you in public, but you are choosing to use your platform to do so. what do you say to other celebrities who don't want to alienate part of their fan base, don't want to step in harms way, but they have similar megaphones that you do? >> you know, the idea, to be bullied at my age by someone like this, it is not happening. you will find yourself in auation that is so terrifying. we always hear about people from eastern europe. the jews from other than parts of eastern europe. from western europe coming

over. look what happened in france. and with the nazis and so on. and you come over, and when i was a kid, they would say you don't really appreciate this country. you don't really. well, we know from experience. imagine what those people went through. i'm just starting to see it. as a kid, hitler, a nightmare. that never would happen. but now i see that it is possible. with those people, the people from nazi germany and eastern europe. >> do you think joe biden is the right guy? >> we don't have a choice. and i think he is the right guy. he is trying to do the right thing. we don't have a choice. and i say that in a very

positive good way. >> what would be your message to president biden? >> go at them hard. and every chance you get, go at them. go at him. people, they take notice of that stuff. he is not afraid. he is doing what he should do. i say go at them. a bully, you punch in the face. he is not just a bully. he is a stupid bully. >> you warned america about who donald trump was in 2016. not enough people listened. do you think they will listen now?

you will see people you knew changing all of a sudden, going that side. for self-preservation. because they actually believe it or they are deluding themselves or whatever. but then when that happens. they are just not opposing it. that is even more scary. there has to be a time when you say that's it. no, we are not doing that. we are not allowing that to happen. and this is the time in the country for that to happen. >> this moment is about decency and democracy? >> it is about decency and right and wrong. you have to know how to behave to make democracy work. >> mr. de niro, thank you very

much for sharing your thoughts. thank you for your time. >> robert de niro said i'm not going to call him name. he's a bully. a stupid bully. de niro couldn't hold back. but when we come back, giving our nation's teachers the credit they deserve and who better than america's top teacher herself? dr. jill biden when the 11th hour continues. ontinues. wait! we can use etsy's new gift mode! alright. done. ♪♪ plateau de fromage! oh la la! don't panic. gift easy with gift mode, new on etsy. ♪ ♪ oh la la! welcome to the roots of our legacy. where excellence, comfort, and electricity... are forever in bloom. welcome to beyond. the mercedes-maybach eqs suv.

disrupts my skin, night and day. despite treatment, it's still not under control. but now i have rinvoq. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that reduces the itch and helps clear the rash of eczema—fast. some rinvoq patients felt significant itch relief as early as 2 days. some achieved dramatic skin clearance as early as 2 weeks. and many taking rinvoq saw clear or almost-clear skin. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal, cancers, including lymphoma and skin; heart attack, stroke, and gi tears occurred. people 50 and older with a heart disease risk factor have an increased risk of death. serious allergic reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. help heal your painful skin— disrupt the itch & rash of eczema. talk to your doctor about rinvoq.

learn how abbvie can help you save. >> tech: at safelite, we'll take care of fixing your windshield. but did you know we can take care of your insurance claim? that means less stress for you. >> woman: thanks. >> tech: my pleasure. have a good one. >> woman: you too. >> tech: schedule today at safelite.com. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ [♪♪] did you know, there's a way to cut your dishwashing time by 50%? try dawn powerwash dish spray. it removes 99% of grease and grime in half the time. dawn powerwash has 3 cleaning boosters not found in traditional dish soaps that remove food and grease 5 times faster. and, because it cleans so well you can replace multiple cleaning products for counters, stoves, and even laundry stains. try dawn powerwash dish spray. brand power, helping you buy better. i used to leak urine when i coughed, laughed or exercised. i couldn't even enjoy playing with my kids. i leaked too. i just assumed it was normal. then we learned about bulkamid

- an fda-approved, non-drug solution for our condition. it really works, and it lasts for years. it's been the best thing we've done for our families. visit findrealrelief.com to find an expert physician near you. ask if bulkamid is right for you and discuss potential risks. results and experiences may vary. move beyond the leaks. and they're all coming? those who are still with us, yes. grandpa! what's this? your wings. light 'em up! gentlemen, it's a beautiful... ...day to fly.

tonight, we celebrate you. because teaching isn't just a job. it is a calling. and all of you were called to this profession for a reason. you believe that a better world is possible. and you make that world real. >> the last thing before we go tonight, honoring our teachers.

testerman is an english language teacher known as being a staunch advocate for her students, family, and fellow teachers here are some of their beautiful remarks tonight. >> as english as a second language teacher, my students are all either immigrants to our country or first generation americans having been born to immigrant parents. hearing the experiences of my students and their families reminds me daily, what a privilege it is to be an american and what a privilege it is to attend a public school in this country. we hold the future of the

country in our hands just as every generation of teachers before us has done. it is the charge that we take seriously. and we will deliver just as legions of teachers before us have. >> we would like to congratulate missy testerman and all of the state teachers of the year, you truly are the backbone of our nation. and we thank you for your hard work and dedication to our children and on that very beautiful note, i wish you a very good night. my colleague ari is up next. and make sure to tune in tomorrow. because it is friday. our night cap. if you miss it, you can catch it again on saturday at 11:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc, but for now, i'm signing off from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late with me. i'll see you at the end of tomorrow. welcome to the beat. i'm ari and this is da