thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these truly extraordinary times we are grateful. "the beat with ari melber" starts right now. hi, ari. >> hi, nicolle. thanks so much. welcome to "the beat." i'm ari melber, and this is day ten of donald trump's criminal trial. the witnesses, the receipts. today, prosecutors began by arguing the defendant should be held in contempt again for new,

fresh, gag order violations, even after he lost the last gag order clash tuesday. the prosecution looking at statements that trump put out about witnesses, as well as attacking the jury itself. prosecutors say the violations are corrosive to the fair trial that he deserves, and that the system requires. they also accuse him of creating an air of menace that could affect these jurors. also denouncing persistent and escalating rhetoric. now, the judge found that judge lost his previous defense about this, ruling that he did violate the gag order, fining him about $9,000, and that was just this week. trump has clearly broken the rules. i say that again, not as a criticism, but based on what we have observed in the trial, what the judge has ruled. here he was just last night. >> i don't think there's ever been a more conflicted judge. crooked and conflicted.

i'm unconstitutionally gagged, so i'm not supposed to be talking to you, because he gagged me. >> trump there trying to play up the gagging while, of course, the very speaking he's doing about the trial would suggest he doesn't seem all that gagged. that's the reality component. then there's the legal component. the judge said -- >> so this was the back and forth and this is what we have covered before, the unusual challenges of a defendant's last candidate. now, trump was apparently displeased with his own lawyer, shaking his head at the exchange. the judge has not yet ruled on this particular instance, but he did say as recently as tuesday that there could be jail as a punishment if there are enough violations. the prosecution then went back to the case in hand. the questioning of a key

witness, a lawyer for some of the women involved in this, karen mcdougal and stormy daniels. that is keith davidson. he helped broker the original secret payments to keep things secret. the ndas. now, they have had their history with trump, and that is part of the trial. although that history itself is not what creates the crime. it is whether there was business fraud and a campaign coverup of those deals. so this witness, davidson, recounted his experience with then trump lawyer michael cohen, confirming cohen was working for trump, that this wasn't a made-upside deal, which is one of the ways the trump team has tried to sow doubt. what this jury was listening to was confirmation of the storyline, which is damning for trump, and that's before cohen ever takes the stand. the whole plot, burying these stories because there was an election coming in november '16. now, remember, "the wall street journal" did get a catch and kill agreement with macdougal

the former playmate, who you see there on the screen. this was in rupert murdoch's "wall street journal," and very few people could dismiss it as fake news. here, you have the legal version of that reporting, with davidson, the lawyer who did the deal, saying that cone was very upset that all of that went down in close proximity to the election of 2016. why does that matter? this is, again, why it's more than a fraud. the burden on the prosecution is getting that other crime i've told you about, we've had just last night, lawyers on who talked about whether that's going to be an uphill battle. so the evidence is bad for trump, if you follow the news, you may know he tried to bury it. of course it was related to the campaign. but memories aren't good enough at a trial. the only thing that people are supposed to consider is the evidence, so your personal memory of living through the '16 campaign is not what you use if

you are a juror, only the evidence presented. this has been an effective couple of days for the prosecution, because they don't look biased or like they're reaching. they are literally using trump and his lawyer and the people around him and their contemporaneous statements at the time to continue to establish and reestablish what appears to be a basic fact, that the campaign is what motivated this. now, trump did win that election. he didn't get more votes. but this, again, a country with a rule of law. under our laws, we have this thing called the electoral college, where even though he got less total votes, he won in the states that made him president. davidson said he thought the catch and kill scheme was key to what we know was a narrow result. it was that night that davidson texted, what have we done? to the enquirer chief, and they respond, oh, my god. davidson said there was an understanding or activity may have assisted the campaign of

trump. davidson also described today a december -- despondent michael cohen, yet he was offered nothing. not a social secretary job, not a junior pr job, not assistant to the press secretary job, to say nothing of doj or other powerful posts that he might have had in his job. he got zero. now, this is interesting, because, again, when you are doing a trial, you have to deal with all the evidence, not just the evidence good for your side. this is something we may see trump's lawyers seize on, the idea that cohen was upset about a whole range of things, the one i'm about to show you, but also his later incarceration that has clouded how he describes what happened to trump. here's that testimony.

>> and then there was a cross examine, more tense today according to people in the room. we have the words, i was there tuesday, our colleagues there today. what was described as a tense and escalating moment was trump's defense attorneys trying to say, well, maybe this guy, this supposed witness who i have just told you is confirming things, and the texts suggest accuracy, but they suggested she a "serial extorter who shook down celebrities." that's all keith davidson is about and how can you trust someone like that? now, for the first time the jury heard michael cohen's voice. prosecutors playing these recordings that at the time were secret and turned out to be quite interesting and now turned out to be criminal evidence. donald trump could lose this case, he could be convicted and sentenced to jail, he could be acquitted, we don't know what's going to happen. but the type of conversations he had were so bad they've become

criminal evidence. that's quite something for a former president. here's one from 2018, who was president at the time, as coed told davidson -- >> the he being trump, and the thing being these payments. now, this corroborates what i've told you the d.a. needs to prove, that trump was in on this. now, you might be so accustomed to hearing donald trump spin and lie and the people around him spin and lie and you might say who each cares that they were saying whether they should or shouldn't do it, right? that's not the point. the point is that at the time then, not later when cohen ran into his further legal problems, but then while donald trump was president trump, michael cohen was privately saying a part of the story that's bad for trump then and saying the same thing now, four years later. that it was trump in on it. not that cohen concocted that

story later to get at his old boss, who he is angry with, but it was true then, it was discussed then on the guy on the other part of that transaction. so that's bad for defendant trump. now, we heard this recording, it was played in court for the very first time today. cohen and trump discussing that initial payment that was arranged for the former playboy playmate karen mcdougal in 2016. >> there are tapes. the tapes are bad. in this case, michael cohen apparently made the tape because he thought it would help him protect himself, especially as he had to scramble so much to get his client to get this deal. then his client didn't want to pay for it in realtime.

and the payment is not just about being cheap or being lazy or any other pejorative term someone may come up with. then candidate trump, later president trump, in the coverup was pay with cash, cover it up, we don't want anyone to know about this. and that's a problem for the trump defense, because they keep saying, it's all legal. ndas are legal. and it's true, there are many ways you can structure an nda between two private parties, all sorts of ways that is legal. but if it was so legal and so okay, why beyond signing it were they so intent on covering it up? does that go against beyond a reasonable doubt that trump's team is trying to conjure, maybe this didn't really happen the way they said? that's some of what went down in the trial today, and we have two experts to dig into this when we're back in just 90 seconds. n. s super hydration body wash.

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view of that deal she struck with the national enquirer. that case went on to be investigated in the southern district of new york, the feds, and now is a trial, the first ever criminal trial of a former president. we're joined by david kelly, who was the chief prosecutor for that journ district of new york. and my former boss in practicing law. and lance lecher, the former manhattan assistant district attorney, who now practices criminal defense. david, that was a big interview that anderson cooper landed at the time. we haven't heard much from her in public. some of what she understood to be the case then is now being confirmed in court. her understanding over time was oh, this was all a cutout. this was kind of a campaign arm of trump that does business as a tabloid. how important is it for the d.a.'s team to prove that up to a jury that isn't super read on

the details, that is only supposed to go off the evidence as they get it just in the past two weeks? >> like i said, ari, look, i think putting pecker on the stand and really laying out the scheme and the context of the scheme was really important. i thought the cross-examination of davidson was very interesting because it fed into the whole thing. i think that one defense lawyer may choose not to cross examine, and the way he did to destroy his credibility. because by doing that, i think what they really did was just show that he had the creds, or participating in a thing that pecker described. while the defense lawyers want to paint this as this happens every day, this is the way it's done, none of the people that they got on cross-examination were running for president. none of the people that they talked about on cross-examination had obligations under federal election law to make truthful

entries. so i think that what karen mcdougal talked about with anderson cooper was kind of acknowledgement that this is the scheme, that what you're doing is, you know, creating this false story, trashing the truth, and hiding everything, and it feeds right into the whole story that david pecker laid out. >> yeah. and lance, davidson is being pulled into this as the lawyer representing the story, in this case, macdougal's story. and he's dealing with the enquirer but also dealing with cohen. so over time, he has a firsthand understanding that, yes, it might be a cutout or an intermediary for the rest of the world, right? but he actually knows the scoop before everyone, and before, as i mentioned "the wall street journal" busted the story open, we spoke with davidson about this. he did cop rate with sdny where

david and others used to work, and we asked about that at the time. take a listen. >> i sat down with sdny prosecutors for about 20 hours in total. >> 20 hours with sdny? >> that's right. so i can put together through their questioning, you know, where they're going and what evidence they believe is important. i think that, yes, they are of the opinion that it was politically motivated. >> lance, he was correct about that. the prosecutor questions, like supreme court questions, might not tell you where they're going. they might be just double-checking stuff. but if they do ten hours on the campaign of it all, you start to think they're looking at campaign violations, not just that they're political nerds wasting time with curiosity, right? and they did get cohen convicted on a federal campaign crime. what do you see as the intersection there, and could

the jury still have doubts about why we're dealing with this so many years later in a local court if it's a federal issue? >> well, the jury might have concerns like that, but i think the prosecutors are going to be well equipped to remind the jury that's not something they should be worried about here. and certainly the judge will handle that when he charges the jury. the jury really has to focus in on the more core -- just the basics of this, and this case, i know, because this is a paper case might seem a little complicated or even at times boring when they put all these exhibits and documents in. but this is a very simple sort of thing. we're dealing with hush money to influence the election. you combine those two things and that undercuts the defense is saying, which this is business as usual. i think with witnesses like davidson today, you're seeing that -- you're dealing with sort of unsavory characters, and it really exposes some of the dealings that go on with

celebrity stories and information that comes out. but i think the prosecutor will have an easy job reminding everyone that these are the witnesses, of course, that donald trump picked. and the takeaway from it could really help the prosecutor's case, which this is not normal. this is not somebody running for office in a normal sort of way. there are -- there are questionable things going on here. people are clearly afraid of illegalgalities. witnesses are voicing concerns how their conduct could be perceived by other it is it was reviewed. that goes to something the prosecutor might talk about, which is consciousness of guilt, which is a powerful kind of testimony that this isn't sort of like a negligent or accidental breaking the law, but what was going on might have been very knowledgeable and intentional. >> yeah. well, that goes to both the motive, as you say, guilty about

the campaign motive. and that david, this was a campaign expenditure, they're basically arguing off the books. because they had years before he was running for president, and they didn't do anything about this. in other words, it wasn't something that they had as an operating expense or part of his personal life. this was the campaign. that's the other bite i want to play for when i did speak to keith davidson. he's not doing interviews right now or he might be here instead of you, lance. but he's only doing testimony on the stand. but when we did get a chance to ask him, he made a shrewd point, david, which was, again, from his own experience, they had this for years. he knows that, because he says he raised it with them. take a listen. >> the affairs happened in 2006. michael cohen and i first contacted each other about the matter in 2011. so at a minimum, they knew about me and about stormy at a minimum

in 2011. they knew about it in 2012 and '13, '14, they knew about it in 2015, they knew about it when donald trump declared that he was a candidate. >> david, was that kind of history due against the trump defense that, hey, he can buy people's silence, you can sign ndas that is legal, and if he wants to do one in 2010 or 2016, he can do that. what does that do to that? >> you characterized the earlier tape as a bad tape. if you're a prosecutor it's a great tape. what it does here, there's a lot of things, because it goes right into the plot of really that this is a whole scheme to alter the election, number one. but number two, it also goes to help stormy daniels' credibility. because they want to paint her as somebody who is a gold digger because she knows she has leverage before the election. but she didn't raise this at the election, she did it much

earlier. it's not the first time it came up. so i think it's very helpful for her. i think it's very helpful in terms of filling in the whole kind of puzzle about the timing of the whole thing. i think it's really pretty -- that kind of testimony, you know, what davidson just said, that's really devastating for the defense. >> yeah. really interesting. i want to thank both of you prosecutors from both new york scenario, which is what the trial we're watching is, as well as federal court. coming up, there is more heat on the trump lawyers as they defend this client with this tough set of receipts. but next, what the successful prosecutions of other people who have run countries around the world can tell us at a time when people say, how does this work, is this a bad precedent? we are now joining a long list of democracies that hold people accountable that's a special report, next. people accountable that's a special report, next

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donald trump was back in the new york courtroom today for his tenth day of his crime as a criminal defendant. this is something that has now riveted america, and we've heard different discussions about what it means. some people saying why did it take this long, others saying why this trial and not the others that he has which itself is quite striking, considering no other former president has been indicted and he faces four indictments. around the world, though, this is a more familiar situation than many americans might realize. the trial itself echoes something that we've seen in other healthy democracies that sevening in a government office doesn't mean that you have a license to kill or a coup or anything else for the rest of your life. and we've seen it capture the attention of millions around the world. >> prosecutors in new york have started to lay out their case against former president donald trump. [ speaking in a global language ]

>> one of the most high profile criminal cases in u.s. history continues. [ speaking in a global language ] >> he will use every single possibility to talk about himself. >> the world is watching this unprecedented moment in our country. and as i mentioned, people tend to go through things with their own experiences, be that personal or collective, and many other societies have these experiences. we've seen former heads of state prosecuted in france, south korea, israel, argentina, in brazil. the one-time president bolsonaro was facing arrest and prosecution for a coup, an effort to overturn the 2022 election that hasekos in our own

country. so no matter what happens in court, donald trump will be the first american leader to ever be a part of resisting the peaceful transfer of power. people died on january 6th. and he praised the people who stormed the capitol that very day amidst that attack as the special people. and now he muses about pardoning them. now he awaits one trial in new york, the outcome of that, and awaits the supreme court ruling whether he will be held account in the coup that other countries have found it's worth putting people on trial regardless of the outcome. for that perspective, we want to look at what we have learned from the world as the world watches america. catty kay is co-host of the podcast "the rest is politic." welcome back. >> hi, ari. >> hi. i don't know if you're going to be on the outside looking in,

because you came here, or on the inside looking out because you've been here long enough to look towards europe, but it is something we forget. americans, including the big oceans and the relative remoteness that people feel from other countries, people forget a lot of other folks around the world are watching this, and this suspect a strange new precedent to them. how should that figure into our understanding of what's unfolding? >> look, you're right. that table that you just put up of world leaders who have been indicted on charges, in mature democr democracies, i'm thinking mostly western industrialized democracies, it tends to be on charges of corruption.

i'm trying to think of a case in a western democracy where a leader, in recent years, is put on charge for the kinds of charges that donald trump is now facing. an attempt to overthrow a free and fair election and subverting the rule of law. so that, i think, is partly why the world is fascinated by this, because sit a first in american history and because everybody -- i cannot tell you how many people are glued around the world on january 6th. there was not a country in the world that was not watching this, when donald trump was first arrested, the world's media was there. they were all watching this, as well. so to some extent, the fascination with what's happening here is just around the fact that it's a first, and it's also emblematic of how many countries are struggling to figure out what to do with the united states. literally, what to do with the united states if donald trump is re-elected, but even if america walks up to the brink of re-electing donald trump, a lot of america's allies are going to

think, you know what? the chaos and confusion is already there, we don't know what to make of this. i think that's part of this. it's partly the trial itself. i don't know that people are following the intricacies of the trial that you do so well every evening. but they are fascinating by donald trump and what's happening in this country that is a mature democracy but doing something that immature democracies haven't done very much. >> the question of what we mean when we say no one is above the law, we talk in details, as you mentioned. but if you go big picture, there is a community of democracies that tries for these ideals. and that's the western model, and that's the magna carta, the founding documents and all that and a bunch of other authoritarian countries that don't say this. nobody is under the illusion that putin is going to be on trial unless there's violence. there's no understanding within the country that law means

anything other than what he says it means, right? but in other democracies, israel is embroiled in many controversies. benjamin netanyahu was on trial precisely because there was strong evidence of corruption. now, he managed to come back from it, but people who look at the civic question that france, israel, uk, italy, that these are places where doing the trial part is not the controversy. in the united states, you have a growing trump aligned group, and maybe with some support on the supreme court itself, that says even having an evidence-based trial is the problem. and i wonder what you think the lessons of european history are there, because if some people are above the trial, above accountability, then why wouldn't they abuse power or engage in extrajudicial killings or the other problems that we have seen in societies that don't have guardrails? >> well, look, desilva went to

prison on charges of corruption in brazil. nicolas sarkozy wearing an ankle bracelet. there was countries around the country. others have escaped jail in italy. benjamin netanyahu took it one step further. i mean maybe this is an interesting case, took it one step further and tried to thwart the independence of the country's judiciary, and what happened, a huge number of people took to the streets. and we saw israelis saying no, this is not what we mean by democracy. we insist on having the rule of law. so, i guess that the -- i don't think that other countries have hesitated -- maybe it's just the polarization in this country means that inevitably you're

going to have people saying that the trial itself is not fair. whatever the outcome. whatever the evidence, they're not prepared to have a trial at all. that i think is, again, worth a quick look around the world to see how this is being reported in other countries. because america's adversaries are looking at exactly what you just spoke about and use thing to their advantage. you watch the chinese media, for example, and the bbc monitors the chinese media every day. they are talking about the polarization and the chaos and the dysfunction of america in the context of this trial. that america can't handle this process, and that is a flaw in democracy. so to some extent, the debate that's taking place in this country right now, around whether the trial should take place is playing squarely into the hands of america's adversaries. >> yeah, i think that's a decisive point, and i think it reminds everyone why, giving into the chaos and the rhetoric is a problem, because it

reinforces what they want. i've been very careful to remind everyone it's a high burden of proof. one juror has reasonable doubt, and it's hung jury and a mistrial. by no means are we barreling something towards where there will likely be a conviction of this individual. but the fact that the system is working rather than cowering against threats of violence by someone who wouldn't leave office peacefully, that i can say factually is a positive thing for democracy, right, separate from a result where we keep an open mind. so thinking about that in a global context is important. i hope you and the mooch are having fun, catty. >> yeah, it's great. talking insider or outsider, i thought it was a good combination. it's a time where the world is fascinated and they think they understand america but really don't, so i wanted somebody who had been in that world. >> i hear that. >> there's a lot for american audiences here, too. >> good. we have it up there.

people can search wherever you get your podcasts. we'll be seeing you again. coming up, an update on a story, that ibv ban in arizona after backlash, making a new move. we have that story tonight. but first, donald trump's defense team, the reasonable doubt i mentioned, we have a very special guest, next. ned, wa very special guest, next and longer-lasting relief than tylenol rapid release gels because advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. so for faster pain relief, advil the pain away. (ella) fashion moves fast. because advil targets pain setting trends is our business. we need to scale with customer demand... in real time. (jen) so we partner with verizon. their solution for us? a private 5g network. (ella) we now get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. (marquis) with a custom private 5g network. our customers get what they want, when they want it. (jen) now we're even smarter and ready for what's next. (vo) achieve enterprise intelligence.

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that was donald trump infamously throwing michael cohen under the bus, he was also lying. we have the evidence in trump's own voice that he knew about that payment and made it and reimbursed it. so, that was a lie. it's a reminder of how difficult it is for the most loyal lawyers who go farther than other lawyers are supposed to, that they still find themselves betrayed by donald trump. that's relevant as he needs lawyers right now. his defense lawyers are standing between him and a conviction in that courtroom. up until this week, they were the only people attending on his behalf. he had one family member on tuesday. this morning, his lawyers were back at it, because they had to deal with a judge rebuing them with regard to possible new gag

order violations, saying nobody forced your client to talk. and the lawyer says, judge, i agree with that, the kind of concession that makes you sound reasonable. the judge also tangled with the same defense lawyer last week saying, you are losing all credibility with this court. you don't want to lose all your credibility in the beginning of a trial. so that is how far this lawyer went. he pushed so hard in open court against the facts, against the odds, against what good lawyers would be, because he knew trump wanted to hear that fight. and that still wasn't enough for his client, defendant trump, who has now been venting about this lawyer, blanche, and griping he hasn't been following instructions and has been insufficienty aggressive. trump wants that aggression in and out of court and he knows his way around legal troubles.

trumps's defense has had to deal with this mountain of receipts and texts. you probably heard about some of them that makes it hard to mount factual defenses where you say none of this happened. we want to turn now to someone who knows a lot, who has battled bob mueller, carolyn pelosi's criminal defense attorney who represented george pop -- papadopoulos. great to have you back. >> thanks for having me. >> i wanted to look at this from a defense perspective. not asking you to formally endorse everything, but give us that insight, because trump's lawyer this week has been pushing hard and trump said it's not hard enough. and there are some available defenses. i told viewers about this, this is admittedly simplifying it, but one way to look at it is,

the lawyers said maybe nothing happened at all, right? so that means hey, trump wasn't involved in any of. this if anything happened, cohen did it. you can call both of those a factual claim. or if anything hand, maybe they do prove elements of this, that things that happened were not against the law. your vow of the available defenses? >> yeah. i like door number three the best. you know, i've said from the beginning of this case, this was a highly winnable case for trump, and by winnable, i think this jury could hang. i don't think realistically there's any possibility of an acquittal with a manhattan jury, but it only takes one jury to hang. as much as the prosecution is trying to make this a simple case, it a es not that simple. the way the d.a. has chosen to charge this case is, in fact, incredibly complicated, even for lawyers. and so i think it's highly

likely that the confusion element will get one juror there. as you know, this is at its heart a misdemeanor falsification of business records case, which the statute of limitations lapsed on, so the d.a. couldn't charge it. so they chose it as a felony count by their theory is the felony falsification of business records were done in furtherance of concealing a secondary crime, also a misdemeanor under new york state law, which is a unlawful conspiracy to violate new york state election campaign laws, which the object of that conspiracy is a federal campaign law. it's a complicated theory. and then there's -- >> i'm going to slow you down a little. just on that point, what we call legal defense, not saying none of this happened, but hey, this isn't really a felony. you think it's a stronger

argument for them, we're going to continue our discussion here, this is one of those nights where we have breaking trial news. so i'm going to play something brand new. we might even go into the red breaking banners. but the control room alerted me we have this new evidence. this is something i know you and i and no one has heard yet, because it's only been described, a tape that cohen made. we played tapes out there. this was played in court for the first time with donald trump's voice on it. so the jury heard it, and because trials are public, we do have now the trial evidence. so this is playing on msnbc here tonight for the first time and as i'm told, we're all going to be listening to it together from a vaumt of tapes we knew existed when cohen was working for trump, and that has to do with them looking back on the deals they made and whether they liked they made it or not, that kind of discussion. we have no reason to think that trump knew he was being recorded, which is why it's such interesting evidence.

we'll get your view on this. cohen and davidson discussing how they feel about what they did. so it's cohen, and that witness today, davidson. we know cohen made several tapes. so we're going to listen and respond. let's play that. ond. let's play that. >> that is michael cohen describing donald trump looking back at it. i'll say a word about it, and then caroline, you tell us how the defense team might be dealing with it, because it relates to the segments we have been discussing. i think the context we knew about this from the trial earlier today is that if the theory of the defense is oh, cohen made up stuff later, that is hard to hold onto if you have all this contemporaneous

evidence along the way, and you don't have to believe everything he says or he's a perfect guy, but that tape is being offered by the prosecution to show h hey, as it went along, he kept mentioning trump was involved, and he says trump says i wish i didn't do it, that's not to hurt or help trump, just what trump says. your thoughts? >> again, i'm sticking with the -- this is a shade of what todd blanche said in his opening argument, it's not illegal to try to influence elections. nothing from that tape indicates somebody committed a crime. this is my issue with a lot of the evidence that's been presented thus far, which is that it's seedy. the evidence today, the keith davidson stuff, it's disgusting. the stuff that he did for a living, you know, doesn't sit well with people, frankly. but this is where i think trump might be his own worst enemy as a client and todd blanche has his work cut out, this that a

common thing that defense attorneys do is get up and say to the jury, look, you don't have to like my client or his lifestyle. you don't have to agree with anything he did. you can hate him frankly. but this is the united states of america, and it's not illegal to, you know, as we know, it's not illegal to pay hush money. the context the prosecution is trying to bring it is it is a campaign finance law violation. so that goes well with that statement, too. that's nothing i would go crazy if i'm the defense attorneys tonight. >> you're describing a defense we've seen in many real courtrooms or in fictional ones, the opening scene in "the devil's advocate" where the defense lawyer says you don't have to like my client, i don't like my client, but it's whether he did this crime. caroline, great to have you on. we'll be right back. , great to n we'll be right back. of finding psoriasis can't filter out the real you. so go ahead, live unfiltered with the one and only sotyktu,

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on the verge of overturning roe, and we learned about it in that unusual way, suggesting something amiss at the court because the entire draft opinion was leaked to the press. and about 50 years of precedent was later shredded when the draft opinion in its main results became the formal ruling. there was, of course, a lot that happened since then. many states cracking down on women's rights and health care and choice. and a backlash to that choice by republican politicians in most states. now, we have today something quite unusual considering this is 2024, but a republican governor there repealing civil war era ban on all abortions in that state. bill made possible, i should say, i think i misspoke, the governor repealing what had been a republican oriented law. five republican defectors. democrats joined in the bulk of the votes to repeal what had happened there, which was the

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get started for $49.99 a month plus ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. don't wait- call today. thanks for spending time with us. i'll remind you, tomorrow we're doing another trump trial special. nats a new program with everything that's happens in the trial tomorrow along with a recap. i'll see you then. you can find me online at arimelber.com. or @arimelber if you use social media. hopefully see you tomorrow, 6:00 p.m. eastern for the trial special. "the reidout" with joy reid is up next. tonight on "the reidout" -- >> there's the right to protest, but not the right to cause chaos. people have the right to get an education. the right to get a degree. the right to walk across a campus safely without fear of being