it's a beautiful... ...day to fly. wooooo! good to be with you. i'm katy tur. frantic, pants on fire, all consuming, those words are how stormy daniels former lawyer

described michael cohen to prosecutors on the stand as the alleged affair became public. asked the lawyers what the point of the line of questioning was because it opened the door to what we have been watching from the defense during cross-examination, which by the way, just ended. they're trying to use michael cohen's one-time loyalty against him. asking keith davidson about calling, he was devastated donald trump wasn't taking him to washington, d.c., saying, quote, after everything i have done for the blank, you can guess what the word is, guy, i can't believe i'm not going to washington. i've saved that guy's blank so many times you don't even know. davidson testified cohen complained to him, quote and that davidson thought he was going to kill himself. the defense wants cohen to seem like a spurned lover, out for revenge. the question is does that

discredit what is at the heart of the case, falsified documents. let's find out from our team covering all of this. joining us now, nbc news national correspondent yasmin vossoughian, up first for us. so yasmin, as i mentioned, cross-examination is done. the redirect should begin soon. just give us an update of what we saw at the end there. >> reporter: at any moment now, we've got about 90 minutes left in court. a couple of things that stood out. and they ended where i thought they thought. this david dennison signature, which they did not get on the agreement with stormy daniels. they brought up the davidson had not signed the agreement between stormy daniels and michael cohen. and brought up that moment in the finality of their cross-examination in which they said, you see the signature, is

david dennison's signature there, no, do you know what happened with the document after it was signed, he said no, and they left it at that for re-direct to come. the word of the day has been discredit. and you mentioned it, right, discredit stormy daniels. discredit michael cohen, discredit attorney davidson while he has been on the stand today. let's talk about his seedy past, how he seemed to be an ambulance chaser, per se, of celebrities they went through the whole roster, trying to discredit his testimony today. they talk about, for instance, his interactions with stormy daniels. let me read a part of the interaction for you. in the context of the discussions, did you talk to cohen about stormy daniels having settlers remorse. sometimes people get settlers remorse, does it reflect the recollection that you said that. you were talking about stormy

daniels here, correct, and davidson says probably. there's an objection, the objection is overruled. the judge says you can answer yes or no. davidson says it certainly appears to be yes. bove says you were using the word hypothetical, you can sit in a chair and say i'm not sure if i was talking about stormy daniels, implying in a way that davidson was possibly misleading the court by not saying outright yes or no and instead saying probably trying to discredit davidson as they have had throughout their cross-examination. stormy daniels seeming as if she's looking for money and limelight than she is for the actual payoff. one more thing, katy, and that is michael cohen, the star witness for the prosecution, he has been discredited all throughout the day, setting it up for his testimony, talking about how he's been frantic, as you mentioned in the opening of the show, how he was incredibly loyal to the former president until he was no longer loyal when he felt the former

president would not bolster him to go to washington, setting him up for a drama-filled testimony. >> so much about michael cohen. he has not yet testified. the defense trying to discredit him. trying to dirty up, dirty might be the other word of the day, dirty up keith davidson, who he is as an attorney, what sort of business dealings he has, and at the end of the cross-examination, this pseudonym, david dennison, it was all used for hulk hogan. we'll get the significance of that in a moment. yasmin vossoughian, thank you very much. joining us now, former new york assistant attorney general adam pollock, and msnbc legal analyst, catherine christian. so redirect is beginning. steinglass is questioning davidson. we'll get updates as they come in. let's end where i ended. this is what you brought up

coming to air that this pseudonym, david dennison was used in the past. does that matter? >> it does matter. if the prosecution is saying we know this is donald trump, that was his pseudonym, it apparently was also hulk hogans. what the whole cross-examination, redirect, and probably a re-cross was to show that this witness is not very credible or not likable, and i'm surprised that the prosecution didn't bring up some of this witness's bad acts on the direct examination. like, for instance, he was involved in the federal investigation, involved with what he did as hulk hogan. that could have come up under direct examination so the jury doesn't think why didn't the prosecution bring this up. >> the prosecution has been good at trying to bring up things they believe is going to be problematic down the line. why would we not hear about this? >> it's a little bit surprising, but it comes in the context of an entire day, an entire week, an entire trial about unseemly

actors, about something a little bit sleazy. maybe they didn't mention this. there was plenty more to cover. >> they're also asking right now, david dennison, steinglass is, the prosecution on the redirect, about michael avenatti, and the wedge between stormy and her agent, gina rodriguez. avenatti was trying to insert himself into things. there's so many names, so many characters. not all of them on the up and up. michael avenatti is in prison right now. he didn't do well by stormy daniels. how do all of these dirty players read to a jury maybe? >> it could be both ways. one, you could say, well, that's who donald trump associated with. the problem is donald trump did not have any direct contact with this witness. it was cohen. donald trump had direct contact with mr. pecker. what did mr. pecker say, he dealt with cohen when it came to

the payoffs. this is all about building reasonable doubt. >> one of the questions i still have is what directly links donald trump to any of this? you have michael cohen on paperwork, michael cohen having texts, phone call, there's not a lot of donald trump. the only direct donald trump conversations we've got so far was from the first witness, and that was david pecker. >> in the end, the lot of this is a side show. the key question is when trump directed those payments to be made to michael cohen and when he directed records to be made and if he directed records to be made, and false records to be made. there's likely a witness from trump tower, inside the trump organization who's going to say, yes, trump said, write them to michael cohen, and here's how i knew. >> they need the witness to say as plainly as that?

>> it can't be they knew. it can't be i assumed this because that's -- >> it has to be i saw this. >> davidson said, he didn't say i know for a fact donald trump was going to be paying the $130,000. he said i assumed it was him or corporate affiliation, so it can't be speculation or assumption. right now we have it's michael cohen. and he's corroborated, yes he took out the 130. and all of his acts are corroborated. so far we have an audio tape of trump and michael cohen speaking but even on the audio tape. at the end michael cohen says no, no, no, i'll take care of it. that's the reasonable doubt that the defense wants to build in. >> you're making that face. >> and the lawyers are not, this witness's lawyer, he seems to be basically a shake down artist, you know, they used the word

extortion. i don't like to, that's a crime, i don't want to accuse anyone of extortion. i don't recall is the hallmark of a witness who is not incredible. i don't recall because i don't want to answer it. so let's see how redirect is. >> you made a face a second ago, what was it about? >> i think there's a lot of fleas here. the prosecution can be successful in showing that donald trump was one of these many fleas, and the defense is going to try to show that he was above all of that, he didn't know what was happening. that michael cohen was off on a lark. >> fleas. >> fleas, whether trump was lying down with them. >> i like that. i hadn't heard that legal speak, legal jargon, legal color. let me ask you about gag order stuff, and there was an interesting moment where the defense rephrase trying to get judge merchan to approve posts that donald trump might put out there in the future, is that

normal? does that normally happen? >> that's not normal, and i think what susan necheles, a very good opportunity, probably was a conversation between her and her client, and she was saying, that violates the gag order, and it's like, let's ask the judge. she knew. she's an excellent lawyer, what would judge would sail, when in doubt, steer clear. >> we're going to get more into the gag order in a second. stick around both of you, we're going to continue to bring you any developments out of that courtroom. as we follow it. we've got our google docs ready and we're reading the updates as they come in. what president biden said about the coast-to-coast protests on college campuses, shortly after hundreds were arrested at ucla, we are back in 90 seconds. are back in 90 seconds new parodontax active gum repair breath freshener. clinically proven to help reverse the four signs of early gum disease. a new toothpaste from parodontax, the gum experts. (ella) fashion moves fast.

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wild protest is not protected. peaceful protest is. it's against the law when violence occurs. destroying property is not a peaceful protest. it's against the law. vandalism, trespassing, breaking windows, shutting down campuses, forcing the cancellation of classes and graduations, none of this is a peaceful protest. threatening people, intimidating people, instilling fear in people is not peaceful protest. it's against the law. >> president biden addressing the nation today making it clear where he stands in support of protests and feature, but

against violence, vandalism and intimidation. what we have been witnessing at college campuses is complicated. not everyone is protesting in the same way, not everybody is breaking the law. but the ones that are vocal and visible. here's what's happening right now at ucla. students and campus staffers are cleaning up the quad after the lapd cleared up the encampment overnight. officers in riot gear using flash bangs to break through the crowd. more than 200 protesters were arrested in the process. it's not clear how many of them were students. joining us now from the ucla campus is nbc news correspondent dana griffin. so dana, what are you seeing right now? >> reporter: yeah, so katy, behind me, this is the effort to clean up this area outside of royce hall where students, faculty and outsiders created an

encampment. front loaders are rolling up gear, dumping them in large bins that you see behind me. you can see several crews tossing items in. they have been breaking down the tents that were posted here. and they made some headway here. this was full of items, and it's mostly clear now. we know that law enforcement says about 209 people have been arrested so far. they are going to be charged with misdemeanors, and then released. the state of what they plan to do here on campus after being released is unknown. we know that classes have been moved online today and tomorrow. because of the disruption that all of this caused. and there's still graffiti outside of this building. so what they're going to do to try to clean this up, it's going to take more effort over the next several days. we heard from law enforcement, they tell us that it is going to cost them millions of dollars just for their presence on this

campus, from yesterday and today alone. so this has been a very costly protest for law enforcement, and for the people who were taken away, they will decide what happens to them next. it's unclear, ucla has not made any definitive remarks about what's going to happen to the students. >> do we know what the breakdown of students to non-students were in the arrests last night? >> reporter: yeah, that's the big question. they have not given us those numbers. we are told ucla will likely be instrumental in helping to figure that out. we know that officers took photos of everyone that they took away as they were zip tied. that's part of the identification process. sometimes people will give false i.d.s or won't give a name. it could take several days if not weeks to identify everyone and we'll hopefully get the numbers soon. >> dana griffin, thank you very

much. up next, we're going to go back inside the courtroom where the prosecution is introducing new exhibits, audio recordings that keith davidson said michael cohen surreptitiously recorded of conversations that they had. don't go anywhere. rsations thatd don't go anywhere. od digestion. it contains a probiotic to help relieve occasional bloating, plus vitamin b12 to aid digestion. try align probiotic. (ella) fashion moves fast. (jen) so we partner with verizon to take our operations to the next level. (marquis) with a custom private 5g network. (ella) we get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. (jen) that's enterprise intelligence. (vo) it's your vision, it's your verizon. every shot is an opportunity. and success requires drive, resilience, - wow. - get it there. and sometimes luck. but what if luck had less to do with it? what if we had the tools to help us practice smarter, the insights to gain an edge, and the data to inform our strategy?

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all right. so a moment ago, we talked about how there are calls being played for the jury inside the courtroom. these are calls between michael cohen and keith davidson.

keith davidson testified that these calls were recorded surreptitiously by michael cohen. i'll read you a little bit from the transcript, and bear with me because it can be hard to follow. here's what it is. michael cohen, saying would you write a book, break away from the entire trump, we'll call it the doctrine. would you go completely rogue, it's not just me that's being affected. it's my entirely family. it's that nobody is thinking about michael. i wasn't going to play penny wise. i'm saying to myself, what about me, and i can't tell you how many times he said we did it, and everyone said it was the right move. what about me and i can't even tell you how many times. that's a repeat, sorry. steinglass asks keith davidson, who did you understand he to be a reference to in that michael cohen call. davidson said mr. trump.

steinglass said about what. davidson, stormy daniels settlement. all right. let's try to figure out what's going on here. back with us, adam pollock and catherine christian. we're looking at the same transcript and trying to decipher it. emil bove is trying to punch into this. what was the prosecution doing at first, playing this phone call and having michael cohen say what about me, what about me, what about me, and he keeps saying we did it. >> the prosecution is trying to bring mr. trump into it. so i said before that we so far, no one is saying that trump is directly involved with ms. daniels in the payoff or this lawyer. this is a back way. keith davidson saying michael cohen told him that, and he can't even say that michael cohen told him it was trump. if his belief, he believes it's

trump. if i'm a defense attorney, i'll tear through that. your belief, the re-cross will be really? >> what makes you think it's donald trump. you might think it. you don't know it. also i'm struck by the tone of michael cohen here, this scorned lover that the defense wants to use to their advantage. does the prosecution have a problem? because michael cohen has been very vocal about how he feels betrayed by donald trump and the defense wants to say this guy is out for revenge. does the prosecution have a problem with michael cohen as a witness? >> the prosecution has known since day one, since a year ago, since the beginning of the trial that michael cohen is a difficult witness for them. a difficult witness to rely on. he's pled guilty to a crime, to lying to congress. he has lots of baggage as it were, coming into this, in his relationship with donald trump and the stuff that he's writing through today on social media.

he's a difficult witness. and they're well aware of that, and they've got to be planning for that. >> so keith davidson has stepped down, the recross finish and the redirect happened. we have gone back and forth a few times. the people are about to call their next witness. i'm just watching to see who it is. how has davidson been as a witness for the prosecution? >> i think davidson is one in a line of difficult witnesses that already come before and are going to be coming in this trial. this is a messy trial, and sort of gives us all an insight, a crack into what this sordid world is about between the "national enquirer" and selling stories. it's not pretty to watch. >> catherine, what about you? >> he was helpful in that he established that there was a payoff and he negotiated with michael cohen, but he was helpful to the defense because he has, particularly since the prosecution didn't bring out

some of his bad acts on their direct examination, he appears to be in the defense view, just a lawyer who shakes down people, whether it was hulk hogan or other people. that's what he did and maybe that's what happened here. that's what the defense will say. this was a shake down of donald trump. this wasn't about paying someone as an illegal campaign contribution. this was a shake down, and michael cohen, it's an understatement to say how difficult of a witness he is for the prosecution. >> so we have our next witness. and tell me if you guys know him, a man named douglas douse, new york district attorney's office, he's a high technology analyst. he processes digital evidence and extraction of digital devices. >> he's a boring authentication witness. so there's some video, audio or some tape that they want to bring into evidence, and he's the one that's going to establish it was not tampered with or altered in any way. >> they're going to introduce a piece of evidence, and he's

going to say this is legit and will there be a cross on this? >> you don't cross of that. >> we have an hour left of court. we'll see if this guy goes quickly and see what he's there to authenticate in a moment. donald trump has been unhappy with todd blanche. he wanted todd blanche to be more of a pit bull. he wants his roy cohn. emil bove went after keith davidson pretty hard, dirtied him up, talked about the stuff he had been involved with. this payoff for someone stealing records about lindsey lohan's rehab time. putting him in a seedy world, making tabloid journalism clean in comparison, a seedy world of payoffs for celebrities who don't want information to get out there, and celebrities might be a friendly term. these characters were aspiring

celebrities, put it nicely. how has emil bove done in the expectations of a client lining donald trump? >> donald trump is obviously a challenging client. many clients are challenging, he's probably one of the hardest. i think of todd blanche as a well known, very good attorney, but a former federal prosecutor. a federal courtroom is more buttoned up, more decorum classroom, classroom, excuse me, courtroom, and it's maybe not the performance that donald trump is expecting, and as you said, a harder hitting cross-examination from bove is maybe what president trump wants. >> and it was hard hitting but completely appropriate, and that's what you want for a cross-examination from a defense attorney. he knew what he was doing, and people on that jury, and you never want to read a juror's mind, they were left with the impression, oh, this guy is a

sleazy lawyer, that's the impression, and he's not telling the truth. again, he did not put himself and donald trump together. it's him, mr. davidson, and mr. cohen, really him saying i thought that he met trump is not that it was trump. >> i'm still struck by the need of the prosecution to get somebody who witnessed or heard it directly from donald trump or witnessed them signing the documents and knew that it was an invoice for more than legal services. who is that person going to be? they had rhona graff on a little bit earlier. she was only on for a few minutes. >> all she could say is these two women were in my contacts and i might have seen ms. daniels in the waiting room. the charges, if you're going to go back to it is falsifying business records. it's not illegal in new york to put false entries in your business records, it becomes illegal if there's an intent to commit fraud or conceal another crime. the prosecution has to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt, and so far we haven't gotten

there yet. >> we're going to dive back into the courtroom in a few minutes. catherine and adam, stick around. coming up next, i want to talk about media silo, how people get their information and what that's going to mean for the upcoming election. we're still focused on this courthouse. is anyone else? don't go anywhere. is anyone else don't go anywhere. now with s, i'm all in with clearer skin. ♪ things are getting clearer...♪ ( ♪♪ ) ♪ i feel free... ♪ ♪ to bear my skin, yeah that's all me. ♪ ♪ nothing is everything ♪ ( ♪♪) with skyrizi, 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. and most people were clearer even at 5 years. skyrizi is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. serious allergic reactions... ...and an increased risk of infections... ...or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms,... ...had a vaccine, or plan to.

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joining us now, "axios"

cofounder, and author of "just the good stuff. jim vandehei. i'm not going to take it personally that you're not in studio, even though you were in studio with my friend chris jansing yelled. >> next time for sure. >> let's talk about media silos, i'm interested in your thoughts on this. we're covering this trial, trying to get to the truth of what's happening, but there's a question of who else is actually watching this, and in terms of the broader electorate. and what this means for november. i know there are people out there who have very strong opinions about this is a, you know, a game changer for november. this should be on top of minds of voters. they should be paying attention to this trial, others will say the exact opposite. there's a big middle out there. >> we're in this really interesting moment, where, you know, you don't have to go back that far. let's say ten years, where most of us were looking at the world through a very similar piece of

glass, and it might have been tv, it might have been cable tv, a couple of stations, newspapers, but we were mostly looking at the same reality. over the last decade, that's shattered into like 20 different pieces, and each one of those pieces defined by your politics, your age, maybe how much you make, what type of job you have and where you live. and so you could be sitting at a table anywhere, and depending on the age and location of people around you, you might not be getting any of the same information on a given day. if you're spending the day scrolling through tiktok, the issues you follow, the people you know, the people you trust, i don't know who they are. i don't use tiktok, and that person who uses tiktok might be sitting next to somebody who's on facebook or instagram who trusts a news source or an individual that that person or i wouldn't beware of either. and what happens is that you have a whole lot of different people, many of whom are highly educated. not because they're not paying

attention or they don't care. they're living in totally different ecosystems and not interacting with the same even reality. and the real danger there is it's very hard now, really other than like the super bowl, where you actually have a whole lot of this country watching the same thing through a very similar lens. and i think, listen, donald trump has benefitted from this. there's a big chunk of his base that consumes content from podcasts that a lot of your viewers haven't heard of. not just truth social, other obscure, maga like platforms, web sites, that would be wholly unfamiliar to them. in those ecosystems, the way they're looking at this trial, he's being persecuted, not prosecuted, right? biden is animating it all, and it just gets them more fired up, you know, and there's another side which looks at this for what it is, a real case, and, you know, a serious case being

brought against a former president, and there's a real legal case. there's a jury. and so that, i think, explanation why there's so much confusion and often a big lack of trust in what is real. that's what scared me most over the last couple of years. it used to be people that weren't paying close attention who believed weird stuff. there's highly educated people, man, you think that's true, and they do think stuff is true. that's an issue. >> it's also part of the reason why congress is trying to get the chinese off owning tiktok because why have a foreign government own a piece of technology where a good portion of the population gets their news information. it can be very risky if you have somebody who could pull the levers. let me ask you about something broader than just donald trump, one of the old adages that we trot out in the news business is a healthy democracy needs a free press. it's essential to a healthy democracy. how do you have a democracy when not everyone is getting the same

information? >> again, i don't think it's hyperbolic to say that we're playing with fire. we really are. like, when you start to lose faith in all of your institutions, and we've seen an emotion of faith in every american institution over the last 20 years. people don't really trust the church. they don't trust the media. they don't trust government. they don't often trust technology. boy scouts, girl scouts, all of these things that used to bind us and bond us together, you lose faith in those things, and then you start to question the truth or you want the amplification of your own truth or what feels soothe to go you personally. where you're playing with fire, this is a complicated time in a complicated world, and there are moments where the public has to be able to focus on the same set of facts and say, listen, how big of a threat is china, how are we going to deal with it. my gosh, ai, might be bigger than the internet, more important than the invention of

the smartphone. should we regulate it, what should we know about it. you could go down the list, all of a sudden, because of technology, warfare is moving away from heavy artillery, and boots on the ground, and it's moving to space and drones and satellites, so maybe these two big oceans on our shoulders no longer protect us. should we recalibrate national defense and what our risks are. you talk about banning tiktok. there's a real threat that the chinese could take the algorithm and manipulate people at scale in our country, but they're already doing that. i mean, people need to be awake. i run into people, oh, i read that on facebook, i read that on instagram. dude, that's a pipe. and in that pipe is some really good content, and there's a lot of sludge, it's not a source of news, and guess who knows that, the iranians, koreans, russians, chinese, and what do they do, create bots, fake accounts, we're not that hard to figure out.

they know exactly what gets us at each other's threats, they make content meant to polarize us and paralyze our congress. they know we're crushing them on the basics, right, democracy and capitalism are far superior to their crappy styles of government, but if we just sort of get at each other's throats and we stop, like, governing, and believing in a common truth, then the bad things could happen. >> you say we're playing with fire. it is scary. jim vandehei, honestly, if you couldn't tell from the conversation, one of the smartest guys in journalism and media. i'm going to plug your book one more time "just the good stuff no bs secrets to success no matter what life throws at you." thank you very much for coming on and eloquently answering those two big questions. >> now that you plug the book like that and said the nice things, i'm definitely coming on set. thank you very much. >> we're going to have more from inside the courtroom in just a moment, but coming up in this world of certainty, one thing that the college protests have exposed is that it's very hard to take a complicated position.

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but this time is different. how and why? my next guest argues, well, it's the certainty or as he puts it in a one-eyed world, the two eyed are free. cornell professor of law and government and civil rights attorney, joseph margolis. thank you very much. i love that quote. in a one eyed world, the two eyes are freaks. explain what you mean by that. >> you know, we live in an intensely tribal moment, and the sense is that one has to pick a side, and that in this post october 7th moment, the challenge is to be either in favor of a victorious palestine or a triumphant israel. and there is no space for

dialogue and understanding. and i, like many others, have been very frustrated with that dialogue, and i wrote the piece that you quote from, to communicate the idea that more important than israel or palestine, more important than israeli or palestinian, much more important than mine or yours is the shared commitment to the right to thrive. the universal commitment to the right to thrive, which is equal and equally urgent for all people at all times. the right to be treated with dignity and respect. and it is so in all places, it is so in all places. it's in gaza and the west bank and it is so in jerusalem and tel aviv, the right to thrive, and that's what we need to focus

on. rather than whether one side or another will win. >> one of the questions people have is what's going on on college campuses right now? can you debate any longer? are questions being asked? is critical thought welcome? >> yes, you can. and some of the concern, at least at cornell, what i can speak to is overblown, much of the concern is overblown. i am in my office. i am looking out my window at the encampment at cornell. i was out there with students just a couple of hours ago. it is a small group of students dedicated to learning and compassionate care for each other and to peace. in fact, in honor of national prayer day there's going to be a time of prayer at 5:30 this afternoon on campus.

this is a group of people who are enormously committed to the idea of open and free dialogue. they are not in the silos that your last guest described. >> professor, i wish i had more time with you, but i'm going to have to leave it there. thank you for coming on and reminding us that you can have complicated emotions. you can have complicated thoughts toward a horrifying situation and that debate still is possible on college campuses along with critical thinking. thank you. next time i hope we can do this and have a much longer conversation. thank you very much. >> happy to do it. coming up after the break, we'll go back inside the courtroom. the expert witness is talking about text messages between michael cohen and hope hicks. we'll tell you what they are, in just a moment. , in just a moment. i'll be okay.

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we're going to go back inside the courtroom. our reporters are still with me. doug daus is authenticating text messages cohen 39d,000 contacts, more than that. what's the point of having him authenticate this? >> he needs to get on the stand and say these text messages that were taken out of the phone, two of michael cohen's phones, that these text messages are authentic. this photograph is aauthentic. and these recordings that were made, which were apparently made on his phone, that these are authentic. there's a chain of custody. >> we're getting a little bit from this. i'm trying to read this in realtime. actually, no. >> it's a direct text from cohen to hope hicks. he had a direct line to the campaign. >> does it mean he has 39,000

contacts? >> no. >> it's a lot of contacts. >> i have never heard that ever. >> the text messages between michael cohen and keith davidson were spicy. if they are spicy between hope hicks, do you expect -- michael cohen is michael cohen. >> hope hicks, from all we heard and read about, it was very professional. they might be spicy between others. there's also photos of him at the white house meeting at the white house, which shows corroboration of michael cohen at the white house and met with donald trump in the white house. so these all basically are texts, photos to corroborate michael cohen's testimony. >> is this just to say that, no, we didn't make up these text messages. no, donald trump can't go out there and say this is a lie. this is legitimate. we have made sure that this wasn't fudged with in any way.

>> to a tremendous extent, not just that we have this phone and computer expert who previously served in iraq who is authenticating it, but he turn the phone on until he was in a secure room. as you said, that this is a completely not messed with phone. >> okay. a fact witness, so it's going to be pretty dry. should we expect to see hope hicks sooner than later? if you are the prosecution, when are you calling in hope hicks? >> i would put her on sooner than later. just to corroborate -- it depends on what she knows. there's testimony she may have been in and out of the room during that august 2015 meeting with pecker and cohen and donald trump, but if her testimony is i didn't hear anything, she's not that useful. but if she's just there to corroborate there was a meeting in trump tower of these three men, then she's useful.

>> there's one text message we have seen so far, cohen to hope hicks on november 2016, call me. 7:00 p.m., call me. that's when they were not winning the election. i believe that's election night. that's when they were not winning the election. it wasn't until 10:00 p.m. they started winning. daus is saying that it's unusual for somebody to have that many contacts being on a phone. he has ten pages of contacts for donald trump. ten pages of contacts for him. he has dylan howard, personal security, melania trump is, gary farther farro. i imagine that's just underscoring how deeply engrained michael cohens was in the trump world. >> it will be interesting to see whether text messages between

donald trump and michael cohen, do we know yet, should come out when michael cohen is called to testify. >> in my mind, november 4th is always election night. that was november 8th in 2016. i apologize. this was four day bfrs the election. i'm curious to see if they are going to have any text messages about the stormy daniels story. after the "access hollywood" tape came out, the campaign was in crisis. there was so many reporters calling her. she was donald trump's right hand. she was the one that directly interacted most of the time with the press. i certainly e-mailed her seconds after i saw that tape before it went public asking the campaign for comment. then michael cohen, the very next day makes an agreement with stormy daniels for her story for $130,000. is it going to be meaning they are texting about stormy

daniels. >> it's meaningful because she's press person for the campaign. so one would assume she would have had a conversation with donald trump. it would be better for the prosecution if there's a direct text message between him and donald trump, who apparently until now, didn't text or e-mail. >> what a way to end the day. thank you very much for hanging out with me. i appreciate it. that's going to do it for me "deadline: white house" starts right now. hi, everyone. welcome to thursday. st it's 4:00 in new york. day ten of the donald trump election interference hush money criminal trial. the sleazy underbelly taking center stage. the whole scheme to catch and kill stories specifically to help the trump campaign was exposed again. a wealth of evidence from lawyers, a porsche star and a