page but trump was there and looking at times to be uncomfortable discovering these documents for the first time. i felt for the guy just as a son and family member having to be the pawn in that political game and the jury game trump seems to be playing. >> that is our show for tonight. and a reminder you can listen to every episode of "alex wagner tonight" as a podcast for free. you can search alex wagner tonight wherever you get your podcasts. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is coming up next. and some people are thrilled at the concept of exactly because everybody's basically wanted to get it out. it's wrong to be in the federal government. they wanted to get it out. the states now decide on abortion, and you go to the states, and the states come out, and they decide, which is what

everybody wanted for over 50 years and we got it done. >> that's donald trump once again taking credit for the end of roe v. wade. the former president made several false claims about the issue during both of his campaign rallies yesterday. we'll have more on that in just a moment. also ahead we'll go through the chaos overnight on the campus of ucla after a group of counterprotesters attacked a pro-palestinian encampment. >> and meanwhile secretary of state antony blinken is pressing hamas to accept a gaza cease-fire deal. we'll bring you the latest on those negotiations. good morning and welcome to "way too early" on this thursday, may 2nd. i'm jonathan lemire. thanks for starting your day with us.

and we'll begin this morning with the unrest on the campus of ucla there in southern california. police officers are on campus at this moment and have ordered the crowd of over 1,000 people to disperse. but a large group still remains protesting the war in gaza. as of now there have not been any arrests. the university called police tuesday night after the demonstrations turned violent. according to the ucla chancellor a band of enstigators attacked pro-palestinian protesters. the los angeles mayor called the violence detestable. mayor bass says people launched fireworks and sprayed chemical irritants at protesters, and at least 15 people were injured. now, violence also erupted at the university of wisconsin yesterday. protesters clashed would police who were trying to destroy their tents. and up at dartmouth college in new hampshire police dismantled an encampment and arrested around 90 protesters. meanwhile in new york city more than 280 people were taken into

custody on tuesday for protests at columbia university and the city college of new york. columbia says that all of its academic activities including finals will be remote. and the unrest continues from ghost to coast. meanwhile the white house has been silence about the protesters. the last time the president addressed the unrest was last week when he condemned anti-semitic rhetoric as well as, quote, those who don't understand what's going on with the palestinians. when asked about it again yesterday, the white house press secretary simply said biden is monitoring the situation and added that some demonstrations have gone too far. "the washington post" notes biden's silence is telling. the issue is difficult for him politically, they write. passions run high, and the democratic base is split above

evenly in the sympathies between israel and the palestinians. in a close race he can't afford to lose voters or even have disillusioned ones sit the election out. the president, however, is expected to address the rise of anti-semitism when he speaks at the u.s. holocaust museum's annual days of remembrance. that commemoration is set for next week tuesday. it's a long time between here and now. president biden did hammer donald trump yesterday for comments the promative 2024 gop nominee made during a new interview with "time" magazine. at a private fund-raiser at the may flower hotel in washington, d.c., biden called the interview a mandatory read according to reporters who were in the room. biden then read several of trump's quotes aloud focusing heavily on where the former president said states should be able to decides for themselves whether or not to monitor

women's pregnancies to determine whether or not they've violated abortion bans. quote, this election is about freedom, america and democracy. that's why i badly need you, biden told the room of donors yesterday. he added trumps values and visions are ones of anger, hate, revenge, and retribution. meanwhile trump returns to the campaign trail yesterday for the first time since his criminal trial began last month in new york city. in wisconsin and then later in michigan, the presumptive 2024 republican nominee painted a dire picture about a second biden term. it claimed everyone was, quote, thrilled with the overturning of roe v. wade. >> if we don't win this election, i don't think our country is going to survive. i will say it, and i've never said that publicly i don't think, but i've felt it for a long time. i actually think our country's not going to survive. your towns and villages will now

be accepting people from gaza. joe biden seems determined to -- he's just determined to create the conditions for an october 7th-style attack right here in america. it's going to happen. the original aim was to take abortion out of the federal government and move it into the individual states. but after 53 years we're able to do that. some people will be very happy, some people won't be as happy, but time will make this. it's really been incredible. the states decide on abortion, and people are absolutely thrilled with the way that's going on. most democrats wanted it. liberals wanted it. i want to thank the supreme court justices for having the courage. clarence thomas, samuel alito, john roberts, brett kavanaugh,

neil gorsuch, amy coney barrett -- for the wisdom and the courage to do this. >> joining us now here on set in washington national politics reporter for the hill julia manchester. julia, we can certainly fact check that. let's talk about abortion which is going to be such a fundamental issue this campaign. as president biden has noted put a lot of attention on what trump said in that "time" magazine interview, even the sort of dystopian idea of tracking a woman's pregnancy. so let's talk about the politics of abortion right now starting with how concerned is the trump campaign about how this is playing out? >> i think there certainly is some concern, but at the same time you have the biden campaign, for example, really zeroing in on florida where we saw that near toment abortion ban go into effect just yesterday. and i think the biden campaign's

strategy in that trying to maybe keep republicans on their tows in florida and block some spending or prevent spending in other states and try to lower that spending. but for the trump campaign there is some concern because we know abortion has been an issue that has worked for democrats in the past -- in the past going back to 2022 in on-year elections and off-year elections. so donald trump making these remarks may not do much to help himself get those swing independent voters that have been swayed by this issue, but it certainly does galvanize his rally base. remember he has to walk havary fine line in terms of keeping the pro-life lobby of the conservative movement happy while at the same time appealing to those moderate voters. >> the legislature voted to overturn the civil war era restriction on abortion, but there's some mechanism it could go into effect in the months ahead. this was trump's return to the

campaign trail despite griping because he's on trial and has to stay in court and can't campaign, frankly he's had days off but he was out yesterday in michigan and wisconsin. talk about the importance of those two states because there is a growing consensus biden's path is through the two of them. >> it's very much the blue wall democrats talk about so much, the blue wall donald trump was able to flip in 2016, biden flipped it back in 2020. in michigan in particular that is huge for both biden and trump but particular for biden because we know that's where the major uncommitted votes, the progressive vote that did not vote for him in the primary and is threatening to not vote for him in the general. low turnout for biden in michigan could hurt his chances, same thing wisconsin. >> we saw during the michigan primary there was a large uncommitted vote, people upset about the war in gaza. and now we're seeing this unrest on college campuses.

some democrats i've talked to deeply alarmed. they think this seems the chaos could turn off sort of moderate voters and also that it will further alienate young and progressive voters. campaign officials you speak to, how worried are they? >> they're very worried. in fact, on the republican side yesterday i had a number of press releases in my inbox essentially tying democrats, democrats who aren't even directly related to these protesters, but democratic incumbents, democratic candidates to these protests. they're essentially tying them to the pro-palestinian movement, calling them not pro law and order. so we're already seeing republicans really try and make that link. >> and we're looking right now actually at live pictures from ucla. police there -- demonstrations have turned violent there in southern california in recent days. julia, we really appreciate you being here this morning. national politics reporter for the hill julia manchester covering a lot of ground for us

again. thank you. still ahead on "way too early" we'll bring you a recap where donald trump's hush money trial stands and preview where court stands today. plus we'll show you how south dakota governor kristi noem is trying to spin the story of killing her puppy in a gravel pit. those stories and a check on sports and weather when we come back. d a check on sports and weather when we come back this isn't charmin! no wonder i don't feel as clean. here's charmin ultra strong.

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it was not a puppy. that from south dakota governor kristi noem who continues to justify why she killed her dog in a gravel pit. the governor spoke to sean hannity last night in an attempt to address the backlash. >> you know how fake news works. they leave out the facts of the

story, they put the worse spin on it, and that's what happened in this case. i hope people do buy this book and find out the truth of this story. the truth was this was a working dog and it was not a puppy. it was a dog that was extremely dangerous. it had come to us from a family who had found her way too aggressive. we were her second chance, and the day she was put down was a day that she massacred livestock that were part of our neighbors, she attacked me, and it was a hard decision. and the reason is it's in the book is this book is filled with tough, challenging decisions i've had to make throughout my life. and i hope that people understand from this that what the point of this story is is that most politicians, they will run from the truth. they will shy away and hide from making tough decisions. i don't do either of those. i tell the truth and i make tough decisions. >> political observers and republican insiders agree this has hurt noem's chances of being

named trump's running mate. meanwhile a potential shooting at a school in wichk was averted yesterday after officials say the would-be gunman was unable to get into the building and was stopped by police. nbc news correspondent maura barrett has the details. >> two shots fired. rifle was aobserved. >> reporter: a middle school student is dead after police responded to reports of an active shooter outside a wisconsin school. >> deadly force was used in this incident and the subject is deceased. >> reporter: police responding to 911 calls around 11:00 a.m. school officials say the suspect was unable to breach the entryway of the school, prevenlting the gunman access to the students. as news spread parents frantically trying to reach their students inside the school. >>shy finally answers and obviously bawling her eyes out. >> not knowing if they're going

to make it. >> reporter: police releasing little information but confirming there were no reports of deaths outside the suspect. >> the rifle recover would the suspect. >> reporter: the incident unfolding during students gym class and recess. rollerblades left behind as kids ran after hearing gunshots. >> i made it a point when i dropped the kids off at school because there was a possibility this would happen. >> reporter: the school district writing on facebook you would be so proud of our students and staff and we're so grateful for our first responders. >> that's nbc's maura barrett reporting. and elsewhere on the subject of gun violence later today president biden will meet with the families of four north carolina police officers who were killed this week in the line of duty. next up on "way too early" we'll take a break and turn to sports and bring you hulights from both the nba and nhl playoffs. plus we'll show you the controversial ending in last night's game at city field involving the mets. we'll be right back with that.

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white, keeps him rolling. >> you just saw derek white put the moves on patty mills to put the boston celtics up by double digits late in the first quarter. white and jalen brown each scored 25 points. celtics were in control throughout and eliminated the shorthanded miami heat with a blow out 118-84 victory last night. miami really giving celtics trouble in recent years, not this time. boston will take on the cleveland cavaliers or orlando

magic. the cavs hold a 3-2 series lead as they head to game six tomorrow night in orlando. we now go out west to los angeles. the dallas mavericks took back control against the clippers. luka doncic scored 35 in the game leading the mavs to a blow out win. they now for a 3-2 lead in that series. game six tomorrow night in dallas. and speaking of dallas let's bring you last night's first round action of the stanley cup playoffs. the stars the golden knights on the brink of elimination beating vegas 3-2 in game five of that series. dallas will try to wrap up things on the road tomorrow night game six in nevada. meanwhile up in edmonton the oilers finished optheir first round series doing so on home ice by eliminating the los angeles kings with a 4-3 game five win. the oilers will now face either the vancouver kanuks or national

predators. we turn now to major league baseball and the controversial final out in last night's game at city field in queens. >> one-two coming, tagging up, makes the catch. cut off from the plate. he's out! now the mets will argue that amaya blocked the plate. >> and he did. >> but if the call is upheld and the game is over. >> after close to four minutes of deliberation about whether chicago's catcher was blocking the plate without possession of the ball, the call was upheld. the runner is out. cubs beat the mets 1-0. that's a tough one. but the rule is they have to have completion evidence to overturn. apparently they felt otherwise. game over. time now for the weather and

let's go to meteorologist angie lassman with the forecast. >> hey there, jonathan. i sound like a broken record because once again you guessed it we've got severe storms for us across the middle of the country. they're waking up to thunderstorms even right now. you can see it across parts of northern plains, stretching into the central plains and specifically the southern plains is where we're going to watch for the best chance for strong storms and flooding concern for folks there. here's the deal as far as hazards. the greatest threat likely to be large hail. egg sized hail is what we're watching for. we'll also see potential for strong wind gusts. we've got a couple of tornados possible. and a lot of that is focused right across portions of of texas and just barely into parts of oklahoma. we'll see that ramp up with the heat and humidity of late this afternoon. we've got these flood alerts up for 9 million people right now, stretch from louisiana into texas and up into oklahoma, wichita falls, lufften, louisiana all included in that as we go through the evening

hours tonight. and a big chunk of this area under threat for flash flooding. we've already seen areas that will likely hit major flood stage. we've seen swollen rivers and on top of that expecting additional rainfall. i mention heat and humidity, how about the east? boy, we are looking at temperatures well above normal this time of year. some spots 20 degrees above normal where we should be. and we've got highs headed to the low 90s across washington, d.c. philadelphia in the upper 80s. knoxville you're going to head to the upper 80s as well as indianapolis into the mid-80s. and we'll see the potential for records across that region. meanwhile, really cool conditions across parts of the rockies and upper midwest we're going to see some of that cooler air start to sweep south. today minneapolis with a high of 54 degrees. green bay you're going to barely miss the 60s today, hit 59 degrees in rapid city and ends up in the low 60s.

mild conditions will settle in. >> angie lassman, thank you very much. still ahead here on "way too early," the white house is ramping up pressure on hamas and israel to come to a cease-fire agreement. what the u.s. secretary of state is now saying about the latest proposal when we come right back. out the latest proposal when we come right back - so this is pickleball? - pickle! ah, these guys are intense. with e*trade from morgan stanley, we're ready for whatever gets served up. dude, you gotta work on your trash talk. i'd rather work on saving for retirement. or college, since you like to get schooled. that's a pretty good burn, right? ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the

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welcome back to "way too early." it's just before 5:30 a.m. here on the east coast, 2:30 out west

on this thursday morning. i'm jonathan lemire. thanks for being with us. secretary of state antony blinken met with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu in israel yesterday in an effort to prevent netanyahu from launching an assault on the city of rafah. at the same time blinken pressed hamas to accept a temporary cease-fire proposal declaring the time is now. the current proposal calls for a 40-day cease-fire during which hamas will release 33 hostages. in turn israel would release palestinian prisoners being held there. in his nearly three-hour meeting with the prime minister blinken also spoke about increasing humanitarian aid in gaza. that's according to the state department. after the meeting blinken made clear he expected more from israel, telling reporters that israeli leaders had not convinced them they could prevent a humanitarian catastrophe if rafah is invaded. joining us now pentagon reporter

for politico laura segalman. laura, good to see you. netanyahu has said he's going into rafah either way, which seems to me to remove some of the incentive for hamas to take this deal. is there any optimism they'll include these last few hurdles because we keep getting close to a deal but never getting them. >> it does seem israel has softened demands in recent weeks saying they're going to allow displaced palestinians to return totheir homes in northern gaza. that's certainly a good sign but sticking points. hamas is insisting they'll end the war completely in exchange for the release of more hostages and netanyahu has said we're going into gaza anyway. what is the? sentive? we're not sure where these hostages are and if hamas would

release. that's why you see blinken and president biden reinforcing the israel pressuremism and there's this u.s. military pier they're going to be building that will increase the amount of aid that comes into gaza by sea. >> certainly the u.s. wants this war to end for national security reasons, humanitarian reasons and let's be clear political reasons. we've seen the unrest and we've had images from ucla ongoing right now. police have been called to campus and we're keeping an eye on that if we're able to show that again. a live look to l.a. right now with what looks like a bit of a standoff. laura, you mentioned the mill tear pier, the u.s. military setup off the coast of gaza. >> so the u.s. military is in the process of setting it up

right nowch we reported yesterday it's going to be up and running as soon as this weekend, which means aid is going to begin flowing as soon as early next week. that's a really quick timetable the military, they had sent several ships. they had been sitting off the coast of gaza in the mediterranean sea for a while making sure everything was ironned out. but that process once it started was very fast. now, as soon as it reaches what they call operational capability, that's going to allow as many as 90 trucks worth of aid a day to flow into gaza, then the u.n. workers are going to be able to distribute that to the people. feel operational capability is going to be up to 150 trucks a day. so that's really a significant increase. of course i should say this a dangerous mission for both the u.s. service members working for the pier and trmting the goods from the pier to the causeway but also for the u.n. workers distributing the aid just last week and attacked the area and that could happen again.

>> it is indeed a war zone. and lastly before we go shifting on the war to ukraine for a moment, u.s. aid finally starting to flow into the region in recent days. at the same time russia really ups its attacks and balm barreding a number of ukrainian cities. give us a sense where the conflict is going in the weeks ahead. >> well, the situation on the battlefield has really been basically a stalemate in the last year, and officials expect that to stay the same for the next six months probably. ukraine had been losing a bit of territory. they were forced to retreat from three villages on the eastern front this week. but as that aid continues to flow in and that military package starts to flow, they will hopefully be able to use those long-range missiles, the atacms into -- strike crimea and hopefully make gains that way. i don't think u.s. officials think there's any chance for much movement on either side in the next six months.

>> pentagon reporter for politico, laura, thank you for joining us. next up here we'll go live to cnbc for an early look what's driving wall street. plus no relief for federal reserve after they hold interest rates steady. we'll dig into what that means and what it means for consumers when we come right back. d what when we come right back. y. wooooo! power e*trade's easy to-use tools make complex trading less complicated.

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there's no obligation, and you'll receive a free beneficiary planner just for calling. time now for business, and for that let's bring in cnbc's silvia amaro who joins us live from london. good morning, silvia. stock futures up a bit this morning as investors look atheed a fresh set of economic data including weekly jobless claims that are due out later today. how's wall street looking? >> that's right. so futures suggest at this stage there could be a positive start to the trading session on wall street. now, partially this could be

because investors are still digesting what they heard from the fed yesterday. we'll talk about that more in just a moment. however, there's also the corporate earnings season still under way. and today we are going to hear from apple, coin base, modrna, and peloton. so all eyes on these talks today. and on top of that we're getting key economic data. today we're awaiting weekly jobless claims, and all eyes tomorrow on the april jobs report. nail it out, it is still a very busy time for market players out there. >> silvia, you just mentioned the federal reserve, and it made a decision yesterday it's holding its key interest rate steady. not unexpected considering where we've seen inflation in recent reports. but tell us a little more about the fed's decision and what it could mean for the markets. >> so no doubt when it came to keeping rates unchanged, that was no surprise for the markets. however, it was the commentary

from jerome powell that was particularly important for investors. i would highlight powell suggested it is unlikely that the fed's next move would be a rate hike. now, given the recent cpi prints some people in the market were starting to consider that perhaps the fed rather than cutting rates could start to be in a position there might have to increase. however, powell missed that and said unlikely that will be their next move. that was an important take away for the markets. on top of that powell also said politics is not a factor in rate decisions. this is important because we have the upcoming election in november, and there's a concern there that some politicians might use a rate decision to potentially cut rates to essentially get more support for their own party. so there's a risk here that monetary policy would be used by politicians ahead of the election. however, it's important to stress that the federal reserve

is independent. they have a mandate that is independent from what's happening on the political scene. however, nonetheless, there is a risk here that both teams could come together as we approach the voting day. >> certainly important. there's political pressures and hard to know if they wig in on the fed or not, but they are indeed independent. at least for now the interest rate not changing but a very important line to follow between now and november. cnbc's sylvia amaro live from london. next up here the house passes an anti-semitism bill amid the unrest. we'll speak about that legislation when we speak to a lawmaker next on "way too early." we speak to a lawmaker next on "way too early.

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welcome back. the house of representatives passed a bipartisan bill yesterday that would establish a wider definition of

anti-semitism. the legislation would give the department of education a broader breadth to use to use to crack down on anti-semitism on college campuses. the bill which passed 320-91 would require the department of education to use the definition of anti-semitism put forward by international holocaust remembrance alliance when it enforces anti-discrimination lawsch the ihra defines anti-semitism as a certain perception of jews, which may be expressed as hatred towards the group. rhetorical and physical manifestations of anti-semitism are directed towards jewish or nonjewish and property and religious facilities. oats all part of the definition. examples include harming jews in the name of extremism, denying the holocaust or accusing the jewish people of inventing it amongst other things. supporters of the bill say it could help the government crack

down on anti-semitism while opponents say it could restrict free speech. joining us now democratic congressman greg landsman of ohio. congressman, thank you for being with us this morning. we've been keeping on eye on the campus of ucla. there have been protests on a number of college campuses from coast to coast in recent days ongoing right now at 2:45 a.m. local time on the campus in los angeles. talk to us why you feel this bill is important and address, if you will, the criticism it could impact free speech. >> it's an easy vote for be, the rise of anti-semitism is real, it's very dangerous. i'm jewish and i know the history well. anti-semitism can go from zero to gas chambers very quickly. it gets out of control and dangerous in a way that i think people overlook even though history is pretty clear on it.

giving universities another tool to make it clear to folks here's free speech, here's hate speech, here's how to protest, here's chaos, and make sure that students know the difference will help ensure this doesn't happen or at least this kind of thing doesn't get out of hand as it has in college campuses. folks have disagreements about the bill. it was in my mind pretty straightforward. >> elsewhere in the house we had congresswoman margery taylor greene yesterday vow again she is going to bring a motion to vacate against speaker johnson in the wake of johnson's support for the national security supplements including funding to ukraine. democrats have said they'll help johnson out, they'll res cume him from this vote. tell us what's going on here am. >> for margery taylor greene and

far too many of them including the former president chaos is their thing. that's how they get attention and how they raise money. i think this is what she's doing. she's trying to raise money and that's not what congress is for. we're supposed to be there to govern. the vast majority of us are determined to govern so she's going to lose out. >> you mentioned the former president trump and donald trump has announced he's going to hold a funds raiser with j.d. vance, senator vance in your district later this month. you know, ohio was the very definition of a swing state for a long time. republicans have won it the last couple of elections, but they don't win where you represent in cincinnati, a sort of bluer area. talk to us about what chord do you think vance and trump strike with so many people, though, who are in your state. >> yeah, i'm not entirely sure what the message is going to be. it's a fund-raiser so we may not know. in ohio just like in other places around the country democracy, freedom, and, you

know, fixing the economy. and when it comes to fixing the economy, most people want the tax code fixed so the super wealthy are paying all their taxes so we can invest in workers in the economy. i don't know how they're going to talk about those issues or the border, for example, they're the ones standing trump in particular in the way of us getting a bipartisan border fixed up. >> congressman, this soap opera, if you will, is what dominates the headlines in the house of late. what else needs to get down here? the legislating kind of stops sooner or later and everyone focuses on their campaign. what are few sort of essentials beyond this anti-semitism bill you think needs to get done? >> the faa bill needs to get done. we've got to dramatically increase the number of air-traffic controllers so that has to get done. what we just passed was last year's budget so we have to pass next year's budget. i would like to see voting rights. i would like to see reproductive

freedom restored. i know that's not going to happen in this congress, but what should happen is the bipartisan border fix. that should come to us, and the only person standing in the way is donald trump. there are 350 of us in the house who would pass a bipartisan border fix. >> and he wants to preserve it as a campaign issue. thank you. up next on "way too early" just hours from now donald trump's criminal trial will will resume in new york city as he could face additional fines for violating the gag order there. we'll break down what to today. coming up on "morning joe," we'll bring you the latest unrest on college campuses as gaza war protesters and ucla engage in a standoff with police. also some violence from counter-protesters there. plus, nypd chief of patrol john chell will be live in studio to talk about the strategy for curbing protests, keeping them nonviolent in the nation's largest city.

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welcome back. in just hours, day ten of donald trump's hush money criminal trial will pick back up in a new york city courtroom. keith davidson is expected to resume his testimony today. he's the former attorney for both adult film actress stormy daniels and former playboy model karen mcdougal, as they brokered hush money agreements following alleged affairs with the former president. trump has denied any sexual encounters with the two women. also today, judge merchan will hold a second hearing to determine if trump violated his gag order again. the hearing comes after prosecutors last week said that trump violated the order four more times. earlier this week. judge merchan ruled that the presumptive gop presidential nominee had initially violated the gag order nine times and, therefore, issued a fine of $9,000 and a warning of

potential jail time for future violations. joining us now, msnbc justice and legal affairs analyst anthony coley. anthony was most recently the top spokesman at the department of justice under attorney general merrick garland. anthony, good to see you. >> good morning. >> let's start with this gag order here. >> right. >> so just remind viewers, this is a separate matter from the one we had earlier this week. >> that's right. >> talk to us about what sort of -- what is it about? what penalties could trump face? >> yeah, what was so interesting about what we saw tuesday is that judge merchan made it very clear that incarceration was a possibility. what we have today is four separate allegations that donald trump violated the gag order. now, to be clear, it's been almost 48 hours, jonathan, since donald trump was held in criminal contempt of court. he's had two campaign appearances, and there have been zero violations, right? no attacks really on jurors or

witnesses, and that's how it should be. no judge really wants to incarcerate donald trump, but, to be clear, they've also got to lay a predicate, so if it comes to that, there is a clear record in the court that donald trump was given every single opportunity to avoid incarceration. they are detailing the violations. he is going to give trump today, i suspect, another verbal warning, and then we have the record of financial penalties. bottom line, this hearing today should take all of 30 minutes or so. i expect judge merchan going to make clear to donald trump that the ball really is in his court, and that if he forces his hand, incarceration still remains an option. >> you spell this out in your opinion piece on msnbc.com, which is titled, "if trump dares judge merchan to put him in jail, the judge will oblige him." there is a long range between $1,000 per fine and potentially a night or two in jail. what would need to occur for a

brief imprisonment to be on the table? >> right. so i really don't think it is going to come to that. mainly because donald trump is obeying the judge. this is a man who doesn't play. if it comes to that, that's why we see judge merchan laying the predicate, if you will, to prevent that from happening, making sure that if it comes to incarceration, if there is an issue of appeal, he is on sound legal footing. i don't think it'll happen. >> we mentioned keith davidson is set to return to the witness stand today. what do we think prosecutors are looking to get from him? >> what is interesting about keith davidson and all the witnesses right now, jonathan, is they are corroborating each other. they're building off each other. it started with david pecker, who was really clear last week in his four days of testimony that this case is not really about minor bookkeeping issues. it's not about hush money payments. it's about a broad criminal conspiracy as alleged by

prosecutors to keep critical information from voters. what we're seeing from others is how that played out. keith davison takes the stand. he was a lawyer for stormy daniels. i suspect we're really going to get to see the details of how this really played out in terms of his negotiations with michael cohen. >> switching gears, you worked for the department of justice under attorney general. >> i did. >> donald trump in his "time" magazine piece, which covered a lot of ground. we mentioned president biden highlighting from trump is saying about abortion. he also, trump, suggested that if he were to lose the election this year or, in his mind, if it was stolen from him again, he couldn't say there wouldn't be more violence. >> right. >> he also suggested that doj, your former home, is something that should be more under the president's control and sort of threatened he could use it to go after political opponents. talk to us, give us your

reaction to that. >> yeah, so i would use the word aghast, but we're always aghast at what donald trump says and does. i think people should have two general reactions here. the first is that we've got to do everything that is possible, democrats and republicans alike, to keep donald trump away from the white house. secondly, there are steps that congress can take right now, jonathan, to keep donald trump's worst impulses if he is president from becoming reality. what does that look like? so last fall, the justice department created a new policy that required u.s. attorneys to get approval and consultation from main justice, from the career staff at the justice department, before opening a congressional investigation of members of congress and their staffs. that's on the books right now. but that can change based on who is in the justice department. so what congress should do right now is codify that into law.

we've seen an example of them doing that type of thing. you'll remember several months ago, they revised and reformed the electoral reform act, right? they raised the threshold by which a member of congress could challenge the results of an election. they made clear that the president of the senate, the vice president of the united states is simply a ceremonial position. there are things right now that congress can do. >> we should note, we put on the screen there an excerpt from the "time" magazine interview, where trump didn't rule out trying to fire prosecutors who weren't going after he wanted, including manhattan d.a. alvin bragg. we appreciate you being here. msnbc justice and legal affairs analyst, anthony coley, thank you. of course, we'll have complete coverage of donald trump's trial throughout the day on the msnbc. thanks to everyone for getting up "way too early" with us on this thursday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. are you looking for a university with no political