>> announcer: "this week with george stephanopoulos" starts right now. campaigning from courtrooms. >> this is a trial that should have never happened. >> donald trump facing four legal battles over efforts to corrupt two presidential elections. >> i will not allow american democracy to be undermined. >> this case has huge implications for the future of the president. >> aaron katersky breaks down the week and our legal experts talk about all the developments. critical aid. >> when our allies are stronger, we are stronger. >> president biden signs the foreign aid package sending assistance to allies as gaza protests spread across campuses. white house national security spokesman john kirby joins us live plus our powerhouse

roundtable and -- >> do you believe president biden and the democratic party take black voters for granted? >> most definitelily. >> just over six months till election day rachel scott reports on the state of the race in georgia. kicking off our new series on the battleground states. >> announcer: from abc news, it's "this week." here now, george stephanopoulos. good morning, and welcome to "this week." until now, no american president had ever faced a criminal trial. no american president had ever faced a federal indictment for retaining and concealing classified documents. no american president had ever faced a federal indictment or a state indictment for trying to overturn an election or been named an unindicted co-conspirator in two other states for the same crime. no american president ever faced hundreds of millions of dollars in judgments for business fraud, defamation and sexual abuse. until now, no american

presidential race had been more defined on what's happening in courtrooms than what is happening on the campaign trail till now. the scale is so staggering it can become numbing. it's all too easy to fall into reflective habits and treat it as a normal campaign where both sides embrace the rule of law where both sides are dedicated to a debate based on facts and peaceful transfer of power. but that is not what's happening. those bedrock tenets are being tested in i way we haven't seen since the civil war. it's a test for the candidates for those of us in the media, and for all of us as citizens. this morning we'll do our best to put it in perspective and analyze what it means. aaron katersky starts us off. good morning, aaron. >> good morning to you. let's add one more. no american president has ever had the publisher of the nation's most well-known supermarket tabloid testify about scheming on his behalf by running hit pieces on rivals and quashing stories about sex.

from a manhattan court to the u.s. supreme court and the arizona attorney general's office this week the legal life of donald trump took an extraordinary path. >> mr. trump, how is it going? >> reporter: for most he sat inside a new york courtroom where for the first time in history a jury began hearing testimony in a criminal case against a former president. manhattan prosecutors have charged trump with falsifying business records to cone seal a $130,000 payment in the final weeks of the 2016 presidential campaign to adult film star stormy daniels to keep her from revealing a sexual tryst that trump denies. >> i was paying a lawyer and writ writing down it a legal expense. >> reporter: he considered him a friend and mentor, david pecker. >> david has been very nice, nice guy. >> reporter: over four days he revealed the art of catch and kill buying and burying stories to protect trump's campaign. the story saw "the national enquirer's" agreement to pay karen mcdougal $150,000.

i believe the story was true, pecker testified. it would have been very embarrassing to trump and also to his campaign. and he told the jury, trump hosted a thank you dinner for him at the white house. >> mr. trump, do you still like pecker? >> reporter: the defense argued trump wanted to quash salacious stories to protect his family, but pecker said he thought it was for the campaign. his family was never mentioned, pecker temperatured. only the impact it would have on the election. the judge refused to let trump skip court on thursday so he could be at the u.s. supreme court when it weighed his unprecedented claim that presidents cannot be prosecuted for conduct that occurred while in office. >> the argument on immunity is very important. the president has to have immunity. >> reporter: for trump it means special counsel jack smith cannot prosecute him for his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. >> without presidential immunity from criminal prosecution, there can be no presidency as we know it. >> reporter: conservative justices appear to suggest presidents deserve some level of immunity, so if they lose re-election, they won't face prosecution from a political

rival. >> will that not lead us into a cycle that destabilizes the functioning of our country as a democracy. >> reporter: liberal justices appeared skeptical. >> they did not put an immunity clause into the constitution. wasn't the whole point that the president was not a monarch and the president was not supposed to be above the law. >> reporter: how and when the court decides could push the special counsel's election interference case past this november's election. meanwhile, in arizona, the state filed a criminal case over the 2020 election and named trump unindicted co-conspirator one. >> the defendant's charged by the state grand jury allegedly schemed to prevent the lawful transfer of the presidency. the scheme had it succeeded would have deprived arizona's voters of their right to have their votes counted for their chosen president. >> reporter: one note about the case charging trump over his handling of classified documents

newly released evidence quoted a witness saying his co-defendant walt nauta was told he would get a pardon if trump is re-elected and another witness said that the storeroom at mar-a-lago where trump kept classified documents for more than a year was no more secure than an ordinary household bathroom. the judge in florida has not said when that case is going to trial. >> aaron katersky, thanks. let's bring in our panel, dan abrams, the assistant dean of the school of global affairs. asha rangappa, parlatore. so much to cover, dan. let's begin with the supreme court, i guess you could come up with one bottom line from all the hours of oral argument. doesn't look like there will be a trial this year. >> no and that's the important question, the timing. what's clear from the arguments is that the justices are going to figure out some standard for

what is deemed to be an official act meaning the trump team has now waved the argument that there's absolute immunity, right? in the lower courts they were arguing that the president should be immune completely and totally for private and official acts. they've now said, okay, okay, we get it. that's not a viable argument. now, the question becomes defining where does the line get drawn when it comes to what is an official act? i think, a, that will take a long time for the court to died, and, b, after they decide it they'll probably send it back and that will be additional delays. >> i want to bring it to kate snow. it does seem that they will carve out immunity. >> i think there's more. i never taught my students about the document of criminal immunity of ex-presidents for prosecution and that's for the reason there is no such doctrine, right? if the court chooses to create one in the case, it shows as

though they will create it in order to protect donald trump rather than because anything in the text or structure or history of the constitution supports that kind of doing trinh. >> asha, many of the conservative justices seem the -- they just didn't want to deal with trump at all or anything that happened on january 6th. most remarkable, justice alito who seemed to suggest -- not didn't seem, who suggested the greater threat is not the president who tried to overturn an election but the threat of prosecution for a president tempted to overturn an election. >> yes, it was very interesting to see the conservative justices who are typically not pro-defendant or anti-law enforcement by any means suddenly preoccupied with systemic bias in the criminal justice system. i mean, they almost sounded woke. they seem to say, seem to be thinking as you said that the greater threat, the bigger threat to the stability of our democracy is the criminal justice system, not a wanton lawless rogue president sitting in the oval office, and that's

kind of a very trumpian world view. >> timothy parlatore, your read on the supreme court? >> i do think that they're going to chart a middle road here and certainly trump brings people together on issues of the two-tier system of justice. you know, having done that investigation myself, i will tell you that there is, you know, risks along with any into a former administration. if they were to adopt the jack smith position then that would open things up to where every time atted managers changes hands, the new administration could open a grand jury and call the vice president, the white house counsel, attorney general, basically everybody in vitiate all those process he and force them to testify about anything. if trump wins he could open one into every decision-making process of ukraine and china. every drone strike, and so i do think that there is a slippery slope to -- ? if that's a threat how do you explain why it's never happened

before now? >> it hasn't happened before now probably because most presidents just wanted to stay away from it but unfortunately politics, you know, has devolved to a point where some form of immunity does make sense to at least define. and if there is no immunity then define that too so that everybody knows what the rules are. >> norm eisen? >> well, my friend, tim is dead wrong on this, george. we have survived 2 1/2 centuries as a nation without any president ever having engaged in this kind of conduct or needed to cloak themselves in absolute immunity for criminal prosecution. the safeguards are ample and multiple. the courts that the supreme court are at the head of can knock that kind of a case out right away. we should not be lulled into thinking anything normal is

happening at this supreme court. both the delay that they've occasioned already moving much slower than comparable cases of national import, and contemplating this needless test put them squarely in the direction of cloaking donald trump in impunity, and making them, if they go down this route, both delaying further and creating this unneeded protection for their favorite candidate will make them complicit. they're acting -- the majority is acting more like donald trump's general counsel than the supreme court of the united states. >> let's turn to the trial that is already happening this year, dan, you've been a skeptic of this prosecution from the start. we're now deep into the testimony. what do you make of it? >> look, i'm still a skeptic of the fact he brought the case, right. two separate question, should he have brought it and second, is there a possibility for a

conviction meaning is there enough evidence? i think you have to view it through the prism of a technical violation, a souped up misdemeanor. with all that said, they have certainly presented evidence of falsified record, right? and now you've got these first witnesses demonstrating particularly david pecker it does seem there is an argument it was done to impact the campaign, and that will be the legal question, that the jurors will be deciding, not the question of should the case have been brought, that's for us to decide out here, right? inside that courtroom, that's not really the question they should be assessing. the only question is going to be, is there enough evidence? and the prosecution is now presenting evidence that i think could in the end become a technical violation although as you and i have talked about i'm convinced there will be a hung jury. >> let me bring it to tim parlatore. maggie haberman has a story about trump's lawyers are doing as much to please him as they are to convince the jury on what happened here. are you concerned that by

failing to concede anything about his conduct they are making it a tougher case? >> oh, very much so. i mean, this is a case where all of the pecker testimony, i believe, is all true. i believe it's not criminal. i mean, the idea of paying somebody hush money, the idea of, you know, putting out false stories against rivals as amoral and retch henceable as that is, it is legal. other campaigns have done it. i mean, even, you know, during that same campaign we had, you know, the steele dossier, trump pee tape, all of that. so it's much better off as a defense attorney saying all of this stuff here, that's not in dispute. we agree with all of that but it's not a crime. the only crime is this thing right here just focused right in on these records, and really laser focus on that, and if you do that, you can make things such simpler and make the jury sit here and say, you know what,

i just listened to eight weeks proving things that aren't in dispute so let's focus on this one thing. >> norm, dan talked about a hung jury. that's the strategy for the trump team. >> that's right, george. they're going for onage bring jur -- angry juror. i'm observing the trial and one of the things i do is look at the jury, particularly when they come in and out. when trump moves in the courtroom, and so far, it's not working. the prosecution has very effectively, again, i have to disagree with tim, they have very effectively argued in their opening and then presented evidence through david pecker of a criminal conspiracy to influence an election. if you pump money to individuals to kill negative stories, to benefit a campaign and pecker temperatured they agreed to that, that is a violation of law. and people have been prosecuted

for that, have pled guilty to that. that is against the law. and then if you cover it up with 34 false documents, you have 34 very serious felonies and the prosecution has made this case, george, as an election interference case. they've emphasized to the jury the seriousness of the case. they did try to tear down david pecker, but they made a mistake the same kind of misleading conduct that their client has engaged in, they showed pecker a document and the judge said it was misleading and i've never had to do this and i was telling tim the other day, i've never had to do this in over 30 years of going to court they made trump's lawyer apologize when we started court on friday morning. so i think we're headed for a conviction and with it, as i wrote in "the new york times" this week, possible jail time. >> kate shaw, before we get to that the former president facing the prospect of possible jail

time for being in contempt. unlikely but the judge still has not ruled. >> and may not rule until after the trial concludes. we don't know. the judge has -- the trial judge has a very difficult, a number of objectives and see the trial through and decide what to do about pending contempt proceedings while -- >> not rule until after the trial is there at least until there could be another hearing. there could -- the trial could conclude and a ruling happen after. trump has not total control of this but his conduct between now and the end of the trial, i think, will influence what the judge decides to do but i think it's at least possible that a ruling on the contempt, violation 30 tensionally could happen after the trial. >> asha, one of the four attorneys in the courtroom, boris epshteyn who is 1 of 53 trump associates charged with election interference in four separate battleground states, arizona, michigan, et cetera, and what is the import? >> the import is it is adding to

the underlying scheme that trump has been charged for. now, in the arizona case what's really notable is there's one absent defendant which is donald trump. and i think to bring it back to the supreme court case, it goes to some of the inconsistency of this theory of immunity that he can engage in illegal conduct and potentially not be held accountable but all of these people who participated in that same scheme can be, the same thing is happening in the hush money case, you know, with michael cohen who pleaded guilty so i think it illuminates some of the contradiction that's happening in terms of his own criminal liability. >> it's always dangerous to call the hush money case a big election interference case, right? there are all those other cases out there that in my view address big picture election interference. to say this is all -- this is election -- it loses the significance of what election interference means, and i think the prosecutors risk in that case with the jury saying the prosecutors are overpromising. this is a grand election interference then they finish the case and say, wait a sec,

this is about paying off a porn star. >> to influence an election. >> yes, but my point is that, again, even for us in talking about election interference, if we start lumping in that case with some of the other cases with much more serious and dire conduct, i think it sort of minimizes the significance of it. >> tim, we've already seen it in georgia. jen ellis, one of donald trump's attorneys turn and start to provide testimony. we're seeing that with some of the other people charged, as well. are you concerned about that as these cases go forward in the states? >> oh, absolutely. i read the arizona indictment. i thought it was actually well written. i thought it was the first time i saw a really coherent theory about this whole tension between the alternate electors versus fake electors theory and they have emails apparently from mike roamingen and boris epshteyn to back it up. will that actually, you know, reach its way up to rudy giuliani and mark meadows? i don't know if they're going to

be able to show that, because, you know, knowing boris as i do he sometimes says, oh, this is authorized from above when it's not. but could that pressure somebody like him or mike roman to, you know, to turn? absolutely. so i do think that is something that is a risk. >> norm, how do these play out before the election if at all? >> well, that will depend on how alvin bragg and his team of very capable prosecutors do in that courtroom, george. what we're seeing unfold, the gravity of it, the weight of it in the courtroom, my read of the jurors certainly the judge does view it as an election interference case when he summarized for the jury what it is. it is a very serious matter of the identical pattern to 2020, deceiving voters to grasp power and then covering it up. if alvin bragg makes that case to the court of law, to the judge and jury but also to the

court of public opinion, i think you'll see a powerful resonance from a likely guilty verdict in that case and then the sentencing, george, poll after poll shows that if the former president is convicted and sentenced, that that creates huge swings in the polling up to a 14-point swing in the key six states, and i think that a conviction is it likely, and with it, i looked at over 10,000 of these cases for my book, a jail sentence as well. >> kate shaw before we go, we didn't talk about the classified documents case. it appears the judge seems to be slow-walking that case as well but in the meantime, a lot of evidence has come out and one irony, that is the case where the evidence seems most lock tight against former president trump. >> yeah, it's incredibly powerful evidence yet i think it's right it's on the slowest track in terms of i don't think anyone think there's a real

chance of it seeing the light of day before the election but all kind of parallels in terms of immunity arguments trump is making in the january 6th case but could also, he has made and could further make arguments he is immune for some or all of the conduct charged in all of these case, state and federal. and in some ways the expansiveness of the argument trump was making in the january 6th case in the supreme court i think has potential repercussions. his lawyer was arguing he could not be criminally prosecuted even if he directed the military to assassinate a rival. if he ordered the staging of a coup and would sweep in lots of other conduct that could be deemed official but yet could never be subject to criminal prosecution. those are the stakes of the argument he is making in the january 6th case and i think in all the other cases as well. >> this will not be the last time we discuss these issues. thanks for coming in. up next john kirby and rising college campus protests. we'll be right back. plastic is not wasted... but instead remade over and over...

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secretary of state antony blinken returns to israel this week on the heels of hamas releasing new video showing american and israeli hostages still held in. >> gio: and sparked new calls for the netanyahu government to secure a cease-fire and john kirby is going to join us after this report from foreign correspondent tom soufi burridge. [ speaking non-english ] >> reporter: this week two american israeli hostages -- [ speaking non-english ] >> reporter: -- seen in captivity in gaza for the first time in hamas videos. 64-year-old keith siegel breaking down with emotion and 23-year-old hersh goldberg-polin both speaking under duress both imploring the israeli government to do everything in its power to set them free. one of keith's daughters demanding israeli leaders watch the video of her dad and see their father crying out for help and hersh's mom rachel with this moving message to her son.

>> hersh, if you can hear this, we heard your voice today for the first time in 201 days, and if you can hear us, i am telling you, we are telling you, we love you. stay strong. survive. >> reporter: as that hamas video of hersh came out, police clashing with protesters who want a cease-fire to get the hostages free. there's real tension on the streets of jerusalem tonight. people are trying to block this and police are trying to pull them back. this movement says the cry is the cry of all hostages. amid deadly air strikes in rafah palestinian families grieving for their children and the youngest victims of this war. this baby born premature rescued by doctors by c-section after her pregnant mother was killed in an air strike. the baby named sabrine surviving and dying at adays

old. officials from the hamas-run government said they exhumed nearly 400 bodies from mass graves inside the nast irhospital compound. the israeli military plans to soon start trying to move hundreds of thousands of civilians out of the southern city of rafah possibly into these newly constructed tented areas ahead of a planned invasion which aid groups say would be catastrophic. and despite more aid trucks ent ent entering, there isn't enough. u.s. military personnel now in the region to construct a temporary pier off gaza's coast so large shipments of aid can get in. >> thanks to burj for that. let's bring in adviser john kirby. thanks for joining us again. let's start out with secretary blinken's mission in the middle east tomorrow. what's on the table. what are the prospects for getting the cease-fire and hostage release?

>> that's going to be right at the top of the list for secretary blinken, to keep pushing for this temporary cease-fire. we want it to last for about six weeks. it will allow for all those hostages to get out and, of course, to allow for easier aid access to places in gaza particularly up in the north. soy he's going to be working on that very, very hard and also be talking to the israelis about their intentions and their thinking about rafah, military operations and sort of where they are in the planning stages for that. >> if they go into rafah, cease-fire is off, any prospect of any short-term -- of a short ending to the war is completely over. >> well, look, i think, again, we have to have a better understanding from the israelis about what they want to do. as a matter of fact, we've had several staff talks with them. we intend to do that more. they've assured us they won't go into rafah until we've had a chance to share our perspectives and concerns with them so we'll see where that goes. obviously, george, if we're able to get this hostage deal in place and are still working at

that, hamas has not fully rejected it. they are considering this proposal on the table. if we can get that in place that gives you six weeks of mase. it gives you no fighting for six weeks and that includes no fighting in rafah and what we're hoping is that after six weeks of a temporary cease-fire we can get something more enduring in place. we want to see an end as soon as possible. >> the humanitarian crisis is so dire right now. how quickly can this pier be put up and why is that better than intensifying land operations? >> i wouldn't say it's better, george. it's another alternative. it certainly will help increase the volume of aid getting into gaza but nothing can replace, quite frankly, nothing can replace the ground routes and the trucks that are getting in and imsay that they have been increasing the amount of trucks that have been getting into gaza. now there's still challenges on the ground in getting it up into the north but that's starting to happen and the israelis are starting to meet the commitments president biden asked them to meet. this pier is now being

constructed. it will take probably two to three weeks before we can really see it in operation. i mean, it's a fairly complicated procedure to get that in place and working closely with the israelis about how the operation of the pier would work. >> we're seeing these protests cascade across college campuses here in the united states. what is the administration's response to these protests and what do you think about the use of police bringing in the police to break them up? >> the president knows that there are very strong feelings, george, about the war in gaza. he understands that. he respects that. and as he has said many time, we certainly respect the right of peaceful protests. now, people should have the ability to air their views and to share their perspectives publicly but has to be peaceful. we'll leave it to local authorities to determine how these protests were managed, but we want them to be peaceful protests, and obviously we don't want to see anybody hurt in the process of peacefully protesting.

but, again, the president understands that and condemn the anti-semitism language we've heard of late and certainly condemn all the hate speech and threats of violence out there. these protest, we understand they're important, but they do need to be peaceful. >> john kirby, thanks as always for your time. up next, rachel scott kicks off our battleground state series with a look at what's at stake in georgia. we're back in two minutes. in ideas you believe in. y to t spot a trend in electric vehicles? have a passion for online gaming? or want to explore the space economy? choose from over 40 themes, each with up to 25 stocks identified by our unique algorithm. buy it as-is or customize to align with your goals. all at your fingertips. schwab investing themes. 40 customizable themes. up to 25 stocks in just a few clicks. ♪ pain means pause on the things you love, but... green... means... go!

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we've never found systemic fraud, not enough to overturn the election. we have 250 cases and we don't see anything that would overturn the will of the people. >> there's no doubt in your mind president trump lost the state of georgia and lost the election. >> sad, but true, i wish he would have won. i'm a conservative republican and i'm disappointed but those are the results. >> secretary of state brad raffensperger after the 2020 election when joe biden became the first democrat to win georgia since bill clinton. ballots were counted three times, the outcome not in doubt even as donald trump continues to falsely claim he won and

trump, of course, facing criminal charges over his post-election actions in georgia but the race will be tight in 2024. here's rachel scott starting our series on the battleground states that will determine the outcome. >> reporter: six months out from an anticipated rematch between president joe biden and former president donald trump, the race to secure georgia's 16 electoral votes is in full swing. >> with your vote we are going to win the state of georgia in an epic landslide. >> over here today, you know, you're the reason why we're going to win. >> reporter: while there are many issues animating voters in the state -- >> to me, our financial situation is huge. >> my most important issue is student loan coverage. >> closing the border. >> reporter: 2020 election denial still looms over the race in georgia where trump pleaded not guilty to ten criminal counts over his alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 results there. biden's lackluster approval and charges he hasn't lived up to his campaign promises call into

question whether he can reassemble the coalition that delivered him his slimmest margin of victory over trump four years ago. polling suggests it will be an uphill battle with trump leading by an average of six points in a head-to-head matchup. >> there's no question that this is going to be a close election. >> senator raphael warnock on the ballot five times in two years knows his state's voters well. >> i would urge him to do what we're doing and that is to keep telling the story about the work that we are doing. the other side doesn't have anything to talk about. >> reporter: to win in november biden needs to turn out voters, especially black voters. and metro atlanta is a stronghold. places like fulton county, home to cascade skating roller rink, a mainstay in the black community. for the owner, greg alexander, an air force veteran, biden is the clear choice. >> i cannot in good kongscience support donald trump. >> reporter: but he says the president needs to do a better

job at selling his record. >> what i'm hear something what has biden done for the country? what has biden done for black people? he last to really focus on getting the word out on this is what i've done. this is what i stand for >> reporter: she isn't sold on any candidate. any election where you sit it out? >> that's a strong possibility as well. >> reporter: he's not alone. a poll from "the atlanta journal constitution" found one in ten black voters don't plan to vote in november. could that significantly hurt the president gentleman. >> i think that georgia voters, black voters included are going to show up for joe biden the same way they showed up for me, not to vote is to vote. it is to push donald trump a little bit closer to the white house and that is a dangerous proposition. >> hello, georgia. >> reporter: but a trump victory is exactly what several georgia voters we spoke to are hoping for? i'm for trump all the way. he's my man.

>> reporter: tommy owns tommy's barber shop and here they're always talking politics. >> do you think that trump can win this state again? >> i think if people look at their pocketbooks, i think they're going to change their mind this time. >> reporter: to retake the state trump will also have to win over voters like lynn dickens, a big nikki haley supporter and supported trump in 2020 but this time she says his priorities are off. >> i feel like there's just so much drama associated with him at the moment and i'm not convinced that he is necessarily focused on the issues at hand right now. >> reporter: out in rock mart just over an hour outside atlanta a much different sentiment like marjorie taylor greene, the representative -- >> we're going to re-elect our favorite president -- >> reporter: -- people i spoke to in polk county where he earned 78% of the vote in 2020

are still firmly behind the former president. >> i like his fight. >> reporter: a local bar and grill, we met sharon. she said her support for the former president is unwavering. >> would you still support him if he was convicted of a crime? >> absolutely, no questions asked. no questions asked. i would bail him out if i could afford it. >> reporter: sharon believe him. what would get you to have trust in the november election in the system? >> i guess if trump wins, i would probably have trust in it again. >> reporter: gabriel sterling and the georgia secretary of state's office says that position undermines american democracy. >> what happens if he wins georgia and loses the country? do you accept it then? i mean, you can't base your plaintiff in the outcome based on whether your side wins or not. that's just not logical. >> reporter: a lifelong republican sterling supported

trump in 2020 but when trump refused to accept he lost he became one of the loudest voices defending the election. his plea to voters this cycle, have faith in the system. >> anybody saying, i feel safe about my vite here but i don't know about those guys over there. we do know about those guys over there. it's safe and secure everywhere in america. >> reporter: for "this week" rachel scott. the roundtable is up next. we'll be right back. mom, can i help? camping was fun, but it looks we brought the woods back with us. if you're a mom, then you really need weathertech for mother's day. it's the ultimate way to kid proof your vehicle. from laser-measured floorliners for the front and rear... to cargoliner...seat protector... and seat back protectors... we've got mom's covered. your turn. (hose spraying and laughter) find all these american made gifts, perfect for mother's day, at wt.com i'm steve. i lost 138 pounds in 9 months find all these american made gifts,

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because breathing should be beautiful. pain means pause on the things you love, but... green... means... go! ♪ cool the pain with biofreeze. and keep on going. biofreeze. green means go. the 2024 election is in full swing, and, yes, age is an

issue. i'm a grown man running against a 6-year-old. [ laughter ] age is the only thing we have in common. my vice president actually endorses me. [ laughter ] >> i'm sincerely not asking you to take sides, but asking you to rise up to the seriousness of the moment. move past the horse race numbers and the gotcha moments and the distractions, the sideshows that have come to dominate and sensationalize our politics and focus on what's actually at stake. >> president biden at the white house correspondents' dinner last night. let's talk to donna brazile, former trump justice department spokesperson sarah isgur, susan page, author of "the rule breaker: the life and times of barbara walters" and selina wang. thanks for driving through the

night from the white house correspondents' dinner to be here and selina, that speech last night capped off the first full week of the split screen campaign. >> it was and it was perfectly encapsulated in his speech which is the tact they've been taking, don't directly comment on trump's legal troubles but joke about it, allude to it. we heard the president do that last night. they are taking full advantage of trump being stuck in court as he's been across the battleground states and one democratic strategist told me to see coutrump in court looking grumpy and old is perfect for the president. >> also out on the campaign trail he has been stepping up his attacks in a way we haven't seen before. >> he calls on my predecessor like he's without a name and now on the attack. this court case has been difficult for trump because we've seen that these indictments help trump, boosted his -- solidified his support in the republican party but he looks humiliated and small and

out of control and silenced during these long court hearings and that is not trump's brand. that is thes on of the brand that had brought trump to the white house. >> clearly the indictments helped him during the primaries. it could continue to help during the general election. >> i don't know. as susan said, this moment we're in doesn't seem to be helping him and you're seeing some of the trend line, donald trump went into the month ahead in every swing state and you see joe biden starting to narrow at least some of those margins in those swing state, though donald trump is still ahead in the vast majority of them. but are people really tuned in? are they seeing sleepy don. only high information voters are paying attention. after this when we get a conviction whether there's a sentencing, is there going to be another trial at that point? >> you assume there's going to be a conviction or just a term of -- [ laughter ] >> i truly think there is a

chance there's not a conviction but i think there's a higher chance of conviction at this point. i think the problems with this case are legal problem, not necessarily fact problems but all it takes, remember, is one juror. that's why jury instructions are so important and why jury selection probably the most important part of this case already is over. >> donna, you worked on several presidential campaigns and hard to wrap your head around a campaign playing out in criminal court. >> george, i've never been here before and i never thought in the years, almost 30 years that i worked in presidential politics and campaigns that i would never have to figure out talking points when your opponent in the case of donald trump is sitting in court all day and not on the campaign trail so you have very little to react from and what i see coming from what i often refer to as the message points from the democrats, hey, go ahead and point out what joe biden is doing for the american people. how he's lifting people out of poverty, how he's providing jobs, getting industries back on their feet and don't get into

the salacious, lurid details of the court case and that's been great. you know, i went out and bought a "national enquirer." i thought catch and kill was about trapping a mouse in the house or figuring out if there are rats around you. i never thought it was about burying stories. there's so much legalese in all of this i think it's just passing over everyone's head but i have to make a statement. because i remember bush v. gore as if it were yesterday. i believe the supreme court is dangling to election interference by slowing it down. i'm not a lawyer, sarah, but i had to listen to the oral arguments the other day and what i heard again was, they weren't talking about the facts of the case. they were coming up with all these hypotheticals. that's election -- they should go ahead and allow the trial on january 6th to go forward in the district court and we should know the results before the election. >> sarah, you are a lawyer. you work -- >> i disagree. the supreme court decides

question, not cases, that's what they're supposed to do and take issues of national importance. i will be surprised if this is not a unanimous decision coming from the supreme court that holds that it's not going to be about official acts versus unofficial acts, it's going to be something more like qualified immunity where if it is so clearly outside the bounds of presidential authority, ordering the assassination of a political rival, of course, that is not going to be immune but don't forget 1982 this court held that presidents were absolutely immune from civil liability. it's why they had to take this case. it's not election interference. this is the job of the third branch of -- >> that's one element but it was remarkable how the -- many of the conservative justices refused to address what donald trump did on january 6th. >> you heard that from all of the justices saying this is not about donald trump. this is a rule that we're making for the ages. this is a rule that's going to have to apply to future presidents and saw justice kagan asking many of the same hypotheticals as anyone else. that's why i think it will be a unanimous decision and i think

people took snippets from the oral argument not understanding that's how the supreme court does this. they don't make a rule for this case. they make a rule for all indications. >> you can still argue -- the district court of appeal rendered this decision in february. jack smith said all along the special counsel back in december, go ahead. make the decision, and they are dragging their feet. >> if this had been a normal case they would put it on the merit -- >> it is democracy denied. that's what's at stake. >> selina wang, we saw president biden give this interview to howard stern where he said he's ready to debate donald trump. do you think it's going to happen. >> that was a big surprise and interesting he chose howard stern as an example for that, because it's another stance of biden choosing to go with more n nontraditional media outlets. a long-ranging interview about the entire arc of his life. i mean, i think the debate could actually happen. the question is, is it held by the committee on presidential debates, which, you know, the democratic party 15 a lot of

issues with or held in some other way or sense but i do think the debate could happen and president biden was very clear in his response. >> susan, i have long been a believer in debates but admit to being conflicted this year. i wonder if a useful debate can happen under the circumstances we face right now looking at the experience of what happened in 2020. looking how difficult in realtime on live television it will be to actually have a substantive debate based on facts. >> you know, i moderated the vice presidential debate last time and it was hard and i'm not sure it could -- was as useful as 2 could be. i believe in debates. i think we have an debate. donald trump will want one because he assumes he will eviscerate joe biden. the sitting president should not have the political option of avoiding debating his opponent for re-election. >> i'd support having a debate. if anything else, the entertainment factor will be really great. i hope the temperature is at donald trump's liking so he doesn't complain it's too cold and i hope nothing smelly

happens. >> sarah, before we go, i want to talk about the campus protest what we're seeing play out across the country this week. it really has cascaded across the country this week and it seems to be posing much more of a throat to joe biden's campaign than donald trump. >> well, look, i am upset. i'm horrified that joe biden who said he ran because of the unite the right rally won't say the same things about what's going on now that he did then. what we're seeing is the right and left, a large minority of both of those political movements rejecting liberal values like free speech, like persuasion, they now think those aren't necessary, that, in fact, they should be in charge in this authoritarian manner. they're not trying to convince anyone and they're not for peace. they're fine with violence as long as it's against jews. it's so outside the bounds of what we should be seeing in the united states of america and where are on people on the left

saying as the right are saying about the anti-liberal values on the right? where are they now? >> on campus trying to lead the dialogue. >> dialogue? you can you imagine dialoguing with the unite the right. >> i'm on those campuses every week. i'll be on another one tomorrow and it is important that we engage in civil dialogue. yes, some students are crossing the line. pitting students against students and there's no place for the kind of rhetoric that threatens students and threaten entire jewish faith and jewish community. there is no place for this on campus. but, yes, we have to have dialogue. we have to talk to students. we have to make sure they understand what's at stake. and we should also encourage them not to cross the line, whether they're taking over buildings and threatening their own student. >> what goss it mean an entire generation doesn't believe in free speech anymore. >> i see that on both the left and right. i see that everywhere. >> selina, this is posing a challenge for the white house. >> it is and i think the white

house and i've heard democratic allies, they have brought up the harvard poll that show young people care more about the economy than any other issue including the war in gaza, but the reality is this is going to be a close race. this is very much animating young people and just want to push back a little on that. i have been speaking to arab and palestinian community leaders who say the vast majority of these students, they are against hate. they are against bigotry, they are there to protest what's happening in gaza, the destruction and death of many of their family members, in fact, and their relatives, that it is being pulled into something that it's not for the vast majority of these students. >> this debate is being defined by the extremes. >> that's right. and this particular debate over gaza and israel is a big political peril for joe biden. you know, there's a new cnn poll out this morning that shows eight in ten voters under 35 disapprove of the job biden is doing in handling this issue. a majority of democratic voters disapprove of what he's doing and it raises the prospect of

the protests we saw last night at the white house correspondents' dinner. think -- >> ohio serious was it? >> it was hundreds of people chanting, there wasn't any violence so in that way it's just the kind of protest we're accustomed in washington but watch out for the chicago convention and what happens on this issue? >> we will be watching. thank you all for a great discussion. we'll be right back. norman, bad news... i never graduated from med school. what? but the good news is... xfinity mobile just got even better! now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds

up to a gig on the go. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. i gotta get this deal... that's like $20 a month per unlimited line... i don't want to miss that. that's amazing doc. mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? it's a mystery. where will "gma" be this week? popping up live taking "gma" to five mystery cities with incredible live morning surprises you just have to see. >> so, where will "gma" pop up? >> maybe we'll be in your neighborhood. >> where will we be? >> we're coming to you, america. get ready. >> announcer: all this week, where will we be? >> we're coming to you, america. >> we're coming to you, america. >> we're coming to you, america. >> get ready. >> get ready. >> get ready. that is all for us today.

thanks for sharing part of your sunday with us. check out "world news tonight" and i'll see you tomorrow on "gma." of tonight's "afv."

hope you got the good spot on the couch. alright. cheers. oh! -aah! -there you go. pretty tight. oh. woman: easy. easy.