it is kind of spinning around. i'm watching a very fast chart here. art, we have just about 40 seconds left. the federal reserve talks tomorrow what may happen at least until the end of 2024. what is your best guess on a rate cut or a rate hike? >> i am guessing we'll have a rate cut, in september, latest. anticipation will be worse than the delivery civil of the message. i think we'll see enough incremental data on inflation before the september meeting. fed is too restrictive at five 1/2. [closing bell rings] liz: art hogan, my friend, b. riley, thank you very much. look at the dow down 564. tomorrow we're all over the fed. you can't miss us. ♪. larry: hello, folks, welcome to "kudlow," i'm larry kudlow. all right, you've got pro-terrorist anti-semitic mobs

raging across college campuses. joe biden has lost control. law and order looks dead in the water. meanwhile a judge fines donald trump thousands over his gag order and threatens to throw him in jail. we have vivek ramaswamy to join us in a few minutes to talkall of that. congressman brian mast and kevin hern will weigh in. ma jolter of americans pushing for israel to finish off hamas. steve moore, doug holtz-eakin. why biden's illegal student loan cancellations will cost $1.4 trillion and jack up the inflation rate and markets absolutely crashing today, down over 500 points on the dow. we will report on that and dig into it but first up, our own madison alworth is live at columbia of the with the latest. good evening, madison, what have you got for us? >> reporter: good evening, larry. we have quite a bit going on. as you can see behind me protesters are lining the streets outside of columbia is

because the campus we reported from yesterday over here to my left that is now closed down. that is after students took over one of the large halls there, going in and taking control there. i want to bring you some of that video from last night. so after midnight protesters broke into hamilton hall. that is where the dean and other administrators have offices. those students occupying the building within minutes after breaking glass and forming a human shield. columbia, it took them nearly 12 hours after the students broke into that building to send out a message saying, quote, protesters have chosen to escalate to an untenable situation and those students occupying the building face expulsion. now back to today, the students, despite threats of expulsion are still inside. what you're hear energy the background of my mic, they are rallying protesters outside here. they're doing call of return as they chant from inside. while these students, they're out here, they're protesting, many others are studying for

finals. those are also going on right now. we were able to talk to some of those students. they say the atmosphere here is tense but they support the protesters. take a listen. >> i fear as charged. i as student finals are a least of my concern right now. i'm in lucky position, i don't have that many finals. for other people i know it is hard to balance everything that is going on an completing the semester. >> reporter: least of his concerns at an ivy league institution in new york. all of this, is the backdrop as education secretary miguel cardona testified on capitol hill that hearing was supposed to be focused on fiscal year 2025 budget but there was a lot of questions around anti-semitic behavior on campuses. cardona said they're investigating columbia from afar. >> you have people at columbia right now on the scene to see what is going on there? do you have staff there to

watch? >> i do not have staff. >> does the civil rights office have somebody up there? >> i do not have staff at the columbia university. i should share with you that we do have an open investigation of columbia university. >> right. >> reporter: okay, so they do not have staff here but we're here. the protesters are here and it really has not slowed down despite closing down the campus. i want to show you that one more time. as you can see these are the gates to the morningside heights campus. this is where hamilton hall is. the campus has been shut down. the students who are still inside, those who took over the building and have the encampment they are inside chanting to dozens if not hundreds of protesters outside in a call to return. all the protesters are now on this one side of the building. i want to show you this as well, larry. this is interesting. swing around this way, doug. some of the student are covering their faces, using umbrellas to hide their identities. willing to be out here and

protest, say things like intifada, say from the river to the sea, but not willing to show their face. at this point the students inside facing expulsion or suspension, many of them still physically on columbia's campus. nypd has not been brought in. it is unclear how they will not get the students off the campus which they are technically not members of. larry. larry: madison a great report. i want to ask, shafik, president of columbia, her administration, what have they done? they have made a couple of statements but they have lost control it looks like. they have absolutely lost control and they won't bring in the cops i take it. >> reporter: yeah. i don't say this lightly. it feels like a bit of a lawless situation. there is not a ton of control. they successfully locked down the campus. students and protesters can't get in. students already in the campus are leading protests from inside. so, i know there is a real es

hesitation too bring in nypd because of the arrests two weeks ago because of the backlash, was seen a way this was ramped up because of that nypd action but at this point the students are still there. none of them, even with threats of expulsion are not leaving. larry: great reporting. we appreciate it. madison alworth. that whole thing is completely out of control. the riff now. joe biden's strong support for woke dei policy, diversity, equity and inclusion, that his administration has inserted into virtually every aspect of american life and government and of course these colleges. dei is also the progenitor of the antisemitism virus that is spreading throughout american culture including universities. the basis of dei in economic terms is socialist class warfare. stick it to rich people.

the rich oppress the non-rich. the fact that this is un-american and untrue is never a barrier to biden's dei. in fact a rising tide lifts all boats. successful earners and entrepreneurs create companies from scratch, could wind up hiring hundreds of thousands of people, paying them with good wages, offering fantastic economic opportunities but the biden budget has come up with this case sy idea of taxing white people because they own more assets than people of color. so economics -- biden-nomics, ad janet yellen treasury department points out white families disproportionately hold assets. yes, we know that, but we also know during the trump years hispanic and black businesses

prospered. unemployment rates fell to record lows. poverty declined significantly and inequality dropped for the first time in nearly four decades. in other words, lower taxes led to widespread prosperity, had nothing to do with class warfare, rich versus poor, or the color of your skin or any of these nutty policies coming out of the current administration. you know, taxing success will bring you less success. taxing prosperity will bring you, wait for it, less prosperity for everyone, regardless of color. taxing white people will not help minorities. a falling tide will instead sink everyone. in race-based tax policy is utter insane but wait, wait, wait, there's more, the bidens would love to confiscate wealth by taxing unrealized capital

gains. that would be economic suicide, probably unconstitutional, but hang on, there is still more. the bidens want to throw in with the g20 countries around the world and set up a massive wealth tax where millionaires billionaires, would be subjected to a 2% tax on assets. i guess this stupid idea means governments are going to look at successful people all over the world to find out exactly who they are, how much money they make and what assets they own. this is like a warrantless search if there ever was one, invading our privacy as well as degrading our prosperity. and by the way, since america is the wealthiest country in the world, we would pay the most in taxes under this goofy plan. and there is one more. the biden treasury is still negotiating with the oecd countries around the world for a minimum tax on corporations and

that would be principally american corporations. this terrible idea would let foreign governments set the tax on american companies. i remember talking about this with president trump, who always said, only america can figure out taxes for american companies, not foreign governments, yeah. so, yes, biden is proposing a five trillion dollar tax hike over all which will punish the economy and raise the inflation rate but when you look under the hood of this tax policy goals you see class warfare, you see diversity, equity, inclusion, you see racial warfare against white folks and especially successful white folks. this left-wing socialist woke approach is absolutely antithetical to traditional american values and the traditional ladder of opportunity that is color-blind and has made america the

strongest country in the world. that's my riff. all right, we'll talk about this later with steve moore and doug holtz-eakin and maybe some of the other guests on the show too but now with more on the protests sweeping our campuses in the country, let's bring in vivek ramaswamy, former 2024 presidential candidate. vivek, great to see you again. i want to talk, actually, whatever is on your mind -- about this revolt, antisemitism spawned by dei. they're closing down the schools and they're engaged in hate speech and hate actions. my question vivek, since the federal civil rights act of 1964 and especially title vi is being violated why doesn't the biden or the biden justice department get the fbi in and do something about this? they have the constitutional

authority to do it but they don't. why is this, vivek? >> well it is get to some other government root causes. take the department of education, they have been using federal taxpayer money showering that on local schools across this country to force the dei agendas on the kids even with k-12. that is the breeding ground for these students that then enter the universities. my general view, start with most basic solutions. first shut down the department of education. return that money to parents and schools across this country. students already entering freshman year coming this that the k-12 education. talk more openly what is going on at these universities. funny i heard one of the chants, larry, chanting intifada, arab world for uprising many that want to call for the destruction of israel. if you listen closely to the

video, they were chanting intifada, which is not a word. this is not just antisemitism riley. these students are loss, completely unmoored, starving for any form of direction and purpose and meaning. all the more reason when finals season is approaching one more deflection. at a time we lost our identity of this country, as americans, members of a family, as individuals. that is what we need to do better in the conservative movement, fill that vacuum, this is what it means to be an american, what it means to be a proud citizen of this nation, not some nebulous global citizen fighting climate change somewhere, but a citizen of the united states of america, that we're proud of it, yes we do have free speech rights. free speech means speaking your mind openly, not protesting or obstructing a education al school of learning, one of the distinctions they try to ally. this is not about free speech but about disruption.

knowing this about our country this is the first step in rehave rehave -- revive being our country. larry: this is from the civil rights act 61964 as you know. know person in the united states shall on the ground of race, color, or national or roy begin be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of or be be subjected to discrimination under any program or activity receiving federal financial assistance. vivek, columbia receives about, i believe six billion dollars of federal grants and so forth and most of these schools, north carolina, texas, ucla, other ivy league schools, it's the same story. why don't we just defund them? >> well look, one of the things i don't think these universities should be enjoying this type of federal welfare any way. it contributed to a lost bloat across these universities.

but you bring up a interesting point about the civil rights act, i wrote about this in my first book, "woke, inc.," larry. look at religion prong of the civil rights act. it says as employer, including a university, you can't force your employees or stakeholders in that university to bow down to your religion. the real question, does the modern dei agenda qualify as a religion under title vii or magnificent six too of the civil rights acts. i think it is hands down. clothes you can't wear, apologies you must recite, the dei woke agenda fits the supreme court test what accounts as a religion to a tee. secular humanism has countered as a religion under title vii jurisprudence. dei counts too. so many ways you can come at this this is fundamentally

american. this is wrong. yes we have free speech rights in this country. you get to speak your mind freely. that is what makes america beautiful. doesn't mean you can disrupt other people from speaking at the same time. larry: hate speech and hate action from big gots should not go unpunished it seems to me and so far the federal government, the bidens, the education secretary who was testifying on the hill today, not going to do a damn thing, not one thing. i just think that will create even larger problems down the road. let me go, hang on a second, vivek. stay with me. another big story today. as you know, day nine of donald trump's trial in new york city. we have fox news nate foy live outside the new york state supreme court house with all the gory details. nate, what can you tell us please? >> reporter: larry just in the past 20 minutes a new york appeals court denied former

president donald trump to delay the trial as he argues for the recusal. keith davidson is on the stand right now. he represented both stormy daniels and karen mcdougal. right now he answering questions from prosecutors about the stormy daniels deal. he said interest in a deal reached a crescendo after release of the axis hollywood tape. michael cohen stepped into american media shoes after the initial deal fell apart. he believes cohen was trying to avoid making the payment. davidson directly negotiated the 150,000 deal for mcdougal's story. he said if american media bought it it would benefit the trump campaign. davidson testified about collection and act a sip of various clips showing the trump deposition in the e. jean carroll case and various speeches he addressed allegations against him. michael cohen's former banker

gary pharaoh wrapped his testimony. he said pharaoh never spoke about trump setting up account to wire daniels 130,000. judge her chon ordered trump to remove nine posts online that say lighted the court's gag order. all but one has been taken down. the next one is still up. trump commented on a post from storm any daniel's former lawyer michael avenatti. he refers to daniels and cohen as sleeze bags. judge her chon fined trump 9,000 dollars for. the fine for someone with trump's considerable wealth doesn't have an impact on him. he threatened trump with jail time if he continues violating the gag order which is notable because there is another gag order hearing on thursday where manhattan prosecutors allege that trump broke the gag order four additional times. we'll send it backs to you, larry.

larry: nate foy, we appreciate that run-down. go back to our friend, vivek ramaswamy. they're gagging him. they're holding him hostage in the trial to stop him from campaigning. charges, almost every good lawyer in the country says the charges are funny, nebulous, doesn't make any sense whatsoever and now the judge is, you know, 1000 bucks per gag order line and might have to throw him in jail because he is too rich to pay one thousand dollars. insanity is beyond belief vivek, as you watch it. what thoughts come into your mind? >> i mean the thoughts come into my mind larry, i spent three years at yale law school. if the professors there care an iota about justice and fairness they would teach this as a case of prosecutorial abuse because that's is what this is. a gag order to stop a u.s. presidential candidate in the middle of an election from responding to political attacks is an affront to the first

amendment. then you look at the nature of the charges themselves. the charges are fake, they're 1:00. brag brag's theory of the case assumed donald trump should used campaign funds to cover personal hush money payments. the fact is if he had done that they would have a stronger case than they do right now. if they were going to get him going or get him coming this is not an exercise in justice at all. this is an exercise trying to interfere in an election and that's exactly what they're doing, stopping him from campaigning stopping him from speaking. threatening him with jail time. that is when the charade really is. the american people need to see through it. so should every lawyer whether you're on the left or the right call out this prosecutorial abuse for what it is. larry: well-said, amen, thank you, vivek ramaswamy, we appreciate it. thanks for coming back on the show. be well. thank you. folks, coming up here on "kudlow," congressman brian mast and kevin hern, why americans

want israel to finish the job and destroy hamas. the trouble the secretary of state is in the middle east saying he want as cease-fire forever. oh, my gosh. we'll have a lively conversation. stick with "kudlow." more to do. before you use ai to transform business, accelerate growth, predict trends, you need to begin with trust. introducing watsonx governance.

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larry: all right, let's go from columbia university chaos to maybe israeli-hamas chaos. joining me now is florida congressman brian mast and congressman kevin hern of oklahoma. thank you, gentlemen, appreciate it. brian mast, let me begin with you, a recent "harvard-harris poll," it is a very good poll, four out of five americans support israel in the war against hamas and, brian, here's the key, 72%, so almost 3/4, back the israel idf operation in rafah to clean out hamas. now with those numbers in mind why, antony blinken, the secretary of state is over in the middle east trying to negotiate a cease-fire, a long cease-fire that would stop israel from going into rafah and

cleaning up hamas once and for all. what do you make of that, brian mast? >> look, we know the administration does not want israel to go into rafah. they see a great deal of danger of them going in and finishing the job and i think the important question is why do they feel there is a danger with israel going to do that and, i'm going to tell you something that i very much fear. i fear this becomes a moment like world war ii soldiers going into auschwitz at the end of the war and they have to come out and tell the world, there is nobody left alive. they killed everybody. i think the administration very much fears that and then of course there's all of the politics that are a part of this domestically, that the administration, it is just not convenient for them for israel to be successful. larry: prime minister netanyahu today put out a statement saying, he is going in to south gaza and he is going into rafah and they are going to destroy hamas. mr. hern, let me ask you this,

all these middle east countries, this is a story that doesn't get told, they want israel to clean up and destroy hamas. in fact a lot of them would like israel to destroyer ran. i will read you, these are the abraham accords countries, saudi arabia, u.a.e., jordan, bahrain, sudan, morocco, maybe i left one out, they all want israel to clean out hamas and we have a secretary of state and a president that does not want israel to clean out hamas. i just do not understand the middle east politics. i don't understand what the bidens think they're getting into. i don't understand what blinken thinks he is doing in the middle east right now. >> well, certainly when you see russia, you see iran, you see china they're the leaders in what's going on in the middle east and rest of the world looking for strong leadership, going all the way back to august of '21, what the world saw with joe biden was

weak leadership and everything has eminated from there. one of our friends, general jack keane, anybody that thinks iran is not in the center of all the turmoil going on in the middle east and that part of the world, being funded by china in their purchasing of the oil from iran to keep their machine going is sadly mistaken. now what you have is joe biden and his administration basically condemning the israeli front, calling on war crimes of four decisions trying to go back to protect their country, we've not seen anything like in since the 1930s. what we need to happen the president needs to stand firm with netanyahu. he needs to help hemmer rad kate hamas, bring back bring back peace in the middle east and peace in israel so they know they can count an us to be with them every step of the way. larry: brian mast, they don't want a victory. they want a tie between israel

and hamas. that is their policy. like ukraine, they want a tie there. but the point i'm making, secretary of state, he want as long cease-fire, that will not get rid of hamas once and for all. that's. the reason i cited the poll, i know polls are polls but the fact is, it is a good poll but three quarters of americans want israel to get rid of hamas. most of the countries in the middle east want israel to get rid of hamas. why is the biden administration opposing this? >> i think simply you can look at that again, question of college campuses don't or at least the college campuses that they're unfortunately paying attention to. this is absolute absolutely political. these are political calculations layering on what should be national security objectives but they're not. they're looking the political security objectives. that is how they get to the conclusions they're getting to. this is the biden history from day one in the afghanistan

withdrawal to the southern border. >> record time. nobody has ever gone faster. never happened. nobody got the numbers we got. i'm sitting in a courthouse all day long listening to this stuff. and -- larry: thank you to the two congressman brian mast and kevin hern. we shifted over to former president trump who is speaking after today's trial. take a listen. >> this is nonsense. should have never been brought. it is showing loud and clear, you have a judge who is totally conflicted, totally, absolutely conflicted, he is rushing this case through, tell you what, some people, somebody just told me they never sat for such a long period of time in a courthouse before. it is ridiculous. i'm supposed to be in georgia. i'm supposed to be in new hampshire. i'm supposed to be in ohio, lots of other places and they have me sitting hire for a biden trial. it is a biden trial. i never saw so many ross prosecutors, they're sitting in

the room over nothing, over absolutely nothing. there is no crime. there is no nothing here. that's what these legal scholars say. how can you bring a case like this? bragg didn't want to bring it. bragg is the guy bringing it and he didn't want to bring it. went to every agency just about in law enforcement. they all turned it down. it's a joke. i'm sitting here because that is exactly what they want. they don't want me on the campaign trail. it is a real disgrace. the whole world is watching. it is a disgrace to new york. just like engoren is the disgrace in new york. we won the case because of statute of limitations. he turned down the appellate decision. that is another case. it is all the same. he turned down the appellate decision, appellate division's decision, gave a decision that gave me mostly a win. just about the whole thing is a win. he is a corrupt judge. this judge is terrible.

kaplan is terrible. gave a person, i have no idea who she is is, $91 million. this is a corrupt system we're in and i think the people are understanding it. if you look at the polls, the people of our country are understanding it. thank you very much. larry: go right to the congressman. we'll go right back to our two distinguished congressman, brian mast of florida and kevin hern of oklahoma. i hope they are still there. thank you, gentlemen. you're very patient. i appreciate it. mr. hern, kevin hern, they have through this silly trial with no ends, no objectives, i mean no nothing, they're holding up mr. trump as he just said, they're stopping him from campaigning. even with that he is ahead in the polls including the swing states but this is election interference. i think it comes straight from the white house. what is your thoughts on this, sir?

>> i think there is no question what is going on. you're looking at election obstruction. you look at the biden doj supporting this through the manhattan d.a., what they're doing to the president of the united states sitting there, he is right, fined for violating a so-called gag order, nothing pertaining to the trial. what they're saying about him politically. you can't even defend yourself, it is much like we're saying right now, this issue of first amendment is under complete assault in america today and at the very peak of this is president joe biden that's allowing all this to happen, actually facilitating it in my opinion and many others what is going on with president trump. larry: you know, brian mast, on that point that kevin hern just mentioned, i'm a cynic because i notice as so many others have, the former number three in the justice department, his name is colangelo i believe, he comes in to run this trial. he was the number three guy in the justice department.

he comes in as assistant d.a. in order to run the trial because everybody knows alvin bragg doesn't know anything about the law and been a terrible d.a., so this guy is doing it. what i am getting at, brian i think this is directed by the white house, white house counsel's office, by the president himself that is the cynic in me. do you have a thought on it, sir? >> i don't think you're wrongly cynical. i think there is one poisonous tree out there, it is the democrat parties. each one of these trials is fruit off the same poisonous tree. same way in the last election cycle they used every social media out let they could, to bury things, hide things. now they're taking every outlet to come up with witch-hunt trials. we can put this in the news. bleed him off from the campaign trail, bleed him from financial resources from all these trials. one way oar another they will bleed him and they will accomplish it.

larry: kevin hern, they want to do the same thing with so-called special prosecutors, guy jack smith. they want to do the same thing. want to tie trump up in court. after this trial they love to tie him up on the j 6 trial or the documents trial in florida, et cetera, et cetera. keep him off the campaign trail, he is so darn good in the campaign trail. the odd thing, in the polls he is doing great. people are watching, what he is saying. this is the worst election interference in our history, is it not? >> it is. what president biden is looking at, he has to figure out how to keep president trump off the campaign trail. what he found out is president trump will out work him every single day, every minute of the day, going every free moment he has away from the courtroom, he is going around the country, especially in those seven critical states. when you look at joe biden and his border policies, economic policies, energy policy, now his foreign policy, failing in every single one of those. the american people are saying we need a strong leader. we know we will get with

president trump. let's get him back in office. larry: well-put. thank you, gentlemen, kevin hern, oklahoma, brian mast, florida. we appreciate your patience. thanks for coming back on the show. switching gears, markets had a rough day today, down 570 points. at the close, our own edward lawrence live from the white house with the details. edward. tell us about it, please. >> reporter: so, larry the markets did not like the compensation costs that came out. they were more than expected. in fact compensation costs over the first quarter of this year, the quarter ending in march of 2024 were up 1.2%. that was again, much more than they expected and accelerating from the fourth quarter. what that means is, inflation costs. those costs are passed through. that puts pressure on inflation going for ward. the markets believe no rate cuts then. in fact the estimates are the first rate cut could possibly come now in november after the election. now, talking about inflation, president joe biden's student loan bailout is going to cost

taxpayers more money than the federal government has spent on the entirety of higher ed.cation combined in history. now the new analysis by the committee for responsible federal budget found taxpayers will have to fork over between 780 billion and $1.4 trillion depending how the president rolls out brand new policy changes. policy institute says this money will be paid by all taxpayers and most likely add to the federal debt. >> this is hugely concerning. we can't continue to add trillions and trillions of dollars to the debt. this year interest costs will exceed the defense budget and exceed the medicare budget. the idea we would take the current out of control deficit and make it even worse is complily bonkers. >> reporter: president joe biden has signed more than seven trillion dollars into law. he is campaigning right now in delaware trying to convince voters and donors his economic

message is working. new cnn poll shows 61% of registered voters see president biden's presidency as a failure. 39% say it has been a success. it has been a three month push for the president and the administration why americans should feel better about their financial situation. here's the argument. >> the american rescue plan obviously was incredibly important in turning the economy around, dealing with the supply chains and we also understand that prices are still too high. they're still too high. so this is why you hear us talk about junk fees. why you hear us talk about lowering prescription drugs. it is important. >> reporter: president has also been pushing that message. it has not been resonating when you look at the polls, at least as of now, larry. larry: thank you very much, edward lawrence we appreciate it. let's bring in steve moore, committee to unleash prosperity and wabc radio host and doug holtz-eakin, president of american action forum.

doug holtz-eakin, student loans will cost over a trillion dollars. what is not being reported is, that is going to promote or stimulate consumer spending and demand and at that time they want to tax and regulate businesses. so we're going to have an inflation problem i think as far as the eye can see. how do you see that? >> well, certainly fiscal policy has been at odds with what the fed is trying to accomplish which is get to the 2% target on a regular basis. they pass spending programs deficit financed, aggregate demand push. in 2023 they got lucky on the supply side with productivity growth. you don't always get lucky. they are making it hard for the fed. you see how sticky inflation is the past three months. employment cost report today shows the labor market is producing a lot of cost through push inflation. we're not out of woods by any means.

larry: steve moore, fourth quarter change, wages in salaries 4.2%. 23 dug is right, productivity does not come in high, that will generate and inflation problem. the other thing that came out consumer confidence slummed from 103 down to 97. by the way consumer confidence hasn't, basically is much lower today than it was one year ago, okay? inflation expectations went up and finally the chicago manufacturing report was awful, 37.9. every category, just running through this, was down. so that's a harbinger of bad business, poor manufacturing and here we are stimulating consumer demand putting another trillion dollars in everybody's hands. this is, this is pretty nutty as a fruitcake. >> yeah, it's an ugly picture out there right now. it feels like this economy right now is incredibly fragile. when you talk about the student loan bailout, doug is right, this will stimulate inflation

because there is more money being flown out but don't forget also, this is going to stimulate the universities to increase their tuition, right? because the taxpayers will pay for it all. look, i'm for workers getting higher wages and salaries. i want all americans to get a big pay raise. the problem is, that productivity of workers is not keeping pace. worker productivity was much higher under trump than it is now and same thing with consumer confidence. consumer confidence was very high throughout trump's presidency except for when we got the pandemic. now it is completely sliding right now. it is an economy that needs a pump up but it is not coming from biden right now. larry: doug holtz-eakin, it is so annoying to me, makes me very angry, this whole business about raising the capital gains tax or even generally speaking. looking attacks policy on the

basis of racial equity, doug. racial equity. that's what the treasury report is talking about. i mean to me this is so divisive, it is economically wrong. it's wrong in terms of our society. it makes all these arguments, you know, we've had such a difficult period. there are so many divisions out there. let's get rich people. let's get white people. dell. dei for tax policy you're a veteran of all these discussions. what do you make of this? >> there are some very simple principles that should guide tax policy, base as broad as possible, keep the rates down as much as you can so taxes are not driving economic decisions. business decisions are made on basis productivity. households buy the stuff they value. this is not complicated. this is exactly the opposite of that. pick narrowest possible base. unrealized capital gains, people

making more than million dollars. that is narrowest base you can find. jack the rate up double what it is now, highest in u.s. economic history. that is bad economic policy. and it will produce bad results. there is no way around that. what they think they will accomplish with this i do not understand. if they believe he is going to be reelected, they want to govern using this tax system, history will judge him as a failure. it will not work. larry: steve moore, occurs to me, biden is running around the country talking about raising taxes, taxes on corporations, taxes on rich -- he has been doing this quite a while, right? you look at his polls. his polls on the economy are terrible. they keep falling. so my thought, steve is, people are smarter than the bidens think. you know what i mean? they know a turkey when they see one. >> [laughter] well-put, larry. american people are note stupid. they may not be a phd economist but you don't have to

be a phd economist to know you're not going to stimulate an economy by raising taxes especially taxes on investment. instead of going after, we want more americans to be owners, we want more americans to own their homes, own their businesses, to own stock. biden is basically saying, oh, let's take away ownership because only white people own things. why not expand ownership to black americans, hispanic-americans. that is the american dream. you will not do it by taxing the rich. larry: it is most incredible. so offensive to me. >> larry? larry: go ahead, doug. >> well i mean, look, you've been doing this a long time, larry and you understand if you rely on private enterprise and you rely on market systems. larry: yes. >> you're saying i trust the decisions of americans. i trust people to pursue their own welfare. i trust businesses to pursue the best path. this administration believes they're smarter than everybody and they should make the choices. it's not true and it won't work.

larry: no, no you're right. doug is right. here's the thing, free-market capitalism is color-blind. that's all. free-market capitalism is color-blind. that's one reason for its efficacy and its success and its popularity. if you let it work has nothing to do with color or race or religion or any of this dei crap that is all around. just drives me crazy. i got to go. doug holtz-eakin, great to see you, steve moore, thank you, buddy, appreciate it very much. coming up we have one more. anti-semitic protests across the country. here's the thing, the bidens have lost control. the picture is we have no law and order anymore. we have "breitbart"'s alex marlow and ricky slot of the "new york post" will weigh in on "kudlow." free-market capitalism is color-blind!

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their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that's uncalled for. larry: all right, anti-semitic protests sweeping across the u.s., looks like biden has lost control. no law and order. joining us rikki schlott, "new york post" columnist, columbia university student and alex marlowe,

"breitbart business digest, author of breaking biden. welcome, first of all i'm reading your column, the story is getting worse. they are staying at hamilton hall. they have tents on the lawn, all rest of it, what is the president and rest of administration of columbia doing? it doesn't look like they're doing a darn thing? >> yesterday, we had a 2:00 p.m. deadline, students, to get the encampment totally cleared. pretty much nothing happened. students started gets threatened of being suspended or expulsion. i started paying my tuition out of my paycheck i could not get access to campus because at this point it is as though they have closed the campus and everybody except for the encampers are suspended. i mean why does my student i.d. not work when i'm paying, i'm actually the one who is not breaking the rules? larry: yeah. people are saying, we had interviews before, people are saying this is more important

than final exams. no it's not. alex marlow, this has a feel, a late '60s feel. it was 1968, mark rudd let the charge, took over what was it, hamilton hall and so forth. but you're seeing this on so many campuses, alex. you're seeing a the love violence. you're seeing a lot of division. you're not seeing any law and order. i think the politics of this is very bad for biden. >> oh, it couldn't be worse for joe biden right now. he needs to take control of the situation, declare this is a civil rights emergency. the students like rikki can't go to class. obviously is. he can't do it because he is afraid, afraid to lose the pro-hamas base. you see the dnc's affiliate on campuses which is the college democrats just came out today, larry they back the protests. they like what's going on. they think this is legitimate and they feel the pain of these students keeping people like

rikki from class. larry: democratic national committee came out in favor of these protests? that is incredible, alex, incredible. >> college democrats. college democrats which is essentially part of the dnc vast ethos. larry: you know, rikki, i want you to go back to school. i want you to pass with straight as and so forth but the federal government as you probably know has the authority under the civil rights act of 1964, we've talked about this on the show, particularly title vi, they have the authority to send in fbi, send in the police, because all these laws have been broken and they won't do it. the bidens will not do it? >> yeah. not to mention that one of the very few places in the city right now where nypd cannot get access and has said they want to gain access is columbia university. and i can say that, i have not been threatened by students on campus but i felt very

uncomfortable and, as though i would rather see a broader protection on campus for students. i'm not a jewish student. i can't even imagine how my jewish piers feel when they're on campus and nypd is outside of the gates. but the university is not allowing them in. they only left them in two thursdays ago to sweep the encampment. they let the encam papment prop up the across the way in the exact same. larry: the end of law and order is the end of safety, the two go together. i'm stunned columbia administration won't do anything about it. i'm absolutely stunned. alex, run out of time, last 10 seconds, here. politics play right into donald trump because he is law and order guy. >> trump has got to seize this narrative. larry, wait for the dnc. it will get crazy there. larry: alex marlowe, rikki schlott, thank you, kids, appreciate it very much.

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larry: i just want to repeat this point, free market capitalism is color blind. race, religion, sex, none of that enters into free market capitalist decisions. biden is trying to racialize it, and this is so divisive, pitting americans against each other, or and it must stop. that's all. and we all have to watch liz macdonald to figure out how the world really works. elizabeth: i couldn't agree with you more. the unity president is dividin