humza yousaf cool ministers to an unscheduled cabinet meeting at bute house this morning. this comes as the scottish government decided to scrap its 2030 climate target and also a review of its gender services. scottish green party co—leader is patrick harvie and lorna slater left bute house in edinburgh earlier this morning ahead of the cabinet meeting and make no comment when asked if their power—sharing deal with the snp was over. let's speak to our scotland correspondent. what's happening? we

correspondent. what's happening? - are here at bute house which is the first minister's official residence where an unscheduled cabinet meeting is taking place. we had word early this morning they would be meeting early today. lorna slater and patrick harvie, co—leaders of the scottish greens, left bute house this morning before that cabinet meeting got under way and we have now had confirmation that that meeting was bringing an end to the power—sharing agreement that had beenin power—sharing agreement that had been in place in scotland since the 2021 election. a power—sharing agreement between the snp after they fell short of winning a majority in that election involving the scottish greens helping them in government with two green ministers in place. we've just had reaction from the scottish greens to the end of that agreement. the scottish greens co—leader lorna slater today

accusing the snp of selling out future generations by walking away from the bute house agreement. she said it was an act of political cowardice by the snp who are selling out future generations to appease the most reactionary forces in the country. we now know that agreement has been brought to an end by humza yousaf. the greens have been due to have a vote of their membership on whether to continue with that agreement that came after, unhappiness over the watering down of climate targets in scotland and the reaction to the cas review into gender identity services. green members wanted to have a vote over whether to continue in the power—sharing agreement but it's now been brought to an abrupt end by the first minister. we understand he had been under some pressure from figures within his own party to bring the agreement to an end. we also understand there were some

demands coming from the greens that perhaps the scottish government felt it would be unable to meet andy agreement was no longer workable. the snp will now be trying to function as a minority government at holyrood. function as a minority government at hol rood. ., ' . , holyrood. how difficult will it be for them to _ holyrood. how difficult will it be for them to function _ holyrood. how difficult will it be for them to function as - holyrood. how difficult will it be for them to function as a - holyrood. how difficult will it be l for them to function as a minority government? it's going to be tricky for the snp. they had been relying on those green votes in parliament. the greens have eight msps, they've been propping them up making sure their legislation and key things such as their budget were passed, allowing their budget were passed, allowing the government to run smoothly, allowing them to pursue their legislative agenda at holyrood. they are no longer going to necessarily be able to rely on those votes and it sounds from those comments that this has been an acrimonious split so the greens may not feel able to

support the government in some parts of their legislative agenda and it will be done on a case—by—case basis. that will leave the snp looking to other parties at holyrood, the scottish conservatives, scottish labour and the lib dems to see if they can support them. they will be looking at trying to get votes to back up their legislation on a bill by bill, case—by—case basis and when it comes to something like their budget they will have to enter those negotiations with the other parties and give concessions to try to get that through. and give concessions to try to get that through-— that through. presumably connotations _ that through. presumably connotations the - that through. presumably connotations the humza l that through. presumably - connotations the humza yousaf but also the green leadership. we know that patrick harvie had said he would quit if the coalition fell apart. tell us about humza yousaf, does it strengthen or weaken his position? what happens with the green leadership? in position? what happens with the green leadership?— position? what happens with the green leadership? in terms of the ureen green leadership? in terms of the green leadership _ green leadership? in terms of the green leadership we _ green leadership? in terms of the green leadership we had - green leadership? in terms of the green leadership we had heard i green leadership? in terms of the i green leadership we had heard from patrick harvie that he would resign as co—leader of the scottish greens

if his membership voted to leave the bute house agreement. we will speak to reporters in the scottish parliament soon. donna slater had said she wasn't talking about whether or not she would leave —— lorna slater. but if patrick harvie does follow through, that would leave the greens looking for another co—leader to replace him and what direction he would take part in. humza yousaf was saying he valued the greens in government, that he would hopefully vote to stay in the bute house agreement. he wanted it to continue. it's quite the u—turn just a wanted it to continue. it's quite the u—turnjust a couple wanted it to continue. it's quite the u—turn just a couple of days' time to now be saying he is bringing to an end.

i think humza yousaf�*s future will now depend on how successfully he can run a minority government at holyrood. 0f can run a minority government at holyrood. of course we have that general election coming up later this year as well and his success there is going to be part of what will define his first year as leader. ., , ,, ., ., leader. how is the snp doing at the moment, leader. how is the snp doing at the moment. under— leader. how is the snp doing at the moment, under the _ leader. how is the snp doing at the moment, under the pressure - leader. how is the snp doing at the moment, under the pressure of- leader. how is the snp doing at the moment, under the pressure of a l moment, under the pressure of a general election? i moment, under the pressure of a general election?— general election? i think they are feelin: general election? i think they are feeling the _ general election? i think they are feeling the pressure _ general election? i think they are feeling the pressure from - general election? i think they are feeling the pressure from labour| general election? i think they are l feeling the pressure from labour in scotland when you look at polling. labour is creeping up on the snp. they could be stealing some seats from the snp if polling is anything to go by and they are feeling that pressure on their backs. the snp has not had its troubles since humza

yousaf became leader and he is going to want to shore up their position at westminster if his leadership is going to continue successfully. tell us about some _ going to continue successfully. tell us about some of the policies that perhaps were unpopular that meant that perhaps the snp decided that if they cut away from the greens, they would have a chance of moving away from policies that people felt were not cutting through.— from policies that people felt were not cutting through. there had been criticism coming _ not cutting through. there had been criticism coming from _ not cutting through. there had been criticism coming from opposition - criticism coming from opposition parties to the scottish government over their handling of issues around gender, for example, the gender recognition reform bill which got held up in the courts by the uk government that sought to seek to change how people could have their gender legally recognised. the first minister was under pressure over that piece of legislation. the greens were seen as the ones that

were pushing for that legislation to be taken through the scottish parliament and seen as having an influence over the scottish government on those issues around gender and more recently, the findings of the cass review which looked at gender identity services for under 18s in nhs england how the scottish government was going to respond to that. so that is part of it. there were also those climate change targets that were watered down at holyrood last week and there was a significant amount of anger within the greens membership over the green party agreeing to that with the scottish government. were the greens perhaps trying to extract more from the scottish government by way of green policies that the government didn't feel it could sign up government didn't feel it could sign up to? we will probably find out more from the greens and the scottish government later today on the reasons for why the bute house agreement came to an end, but those were some of the policy areas that were some of the policy areas that were causing this pressure on the first minister.—

were causing this pressure on the first minister. lynsey bews, thank ou. let first minister. lynsey bews, thank yom let speak— first minister. lynsey bews, thank you. let speak to _ first minister. lynsey bews, thank you. let speak to kathleen - first minister. lynsey bews, thank you. let speak to kathleen nut, l first minister. lynsey bews, thank you. let speak to kathleen nut, aj you. let speak to kathleen nut, a political correspondent at the herald. what is your assessment of what is happening here? it’s a what is happening here? it's a fast-paced — what is happening here? it's a fast-paced story. _ what is happening here? it's a fast-paced story. i'm - what is happening here? it's a fast-paced story. i'm just - what is happening here? it�*s —. fast—paced story. i'm just reading the statement from the scottish greens co—leader lorna slater at the moment, who is accusing the snp of selling out future generations to appease the most reactionary forces in the country. she has confirmed that the deal is over with the snp. the scottish greens are out of power now. there is a bute house press conference at ten o'clock which will be addressed by the first minister. there are questions over whether he will be continuing as snp leader. i have spoken to one senior figure in

the party, who pointed out that humza yousaf had stood on a platform during the snp leadership contest of continuing with the bute house agreement and he described it as a gold—plated agreement with them that was worth its weight in gold. so by implication, now that that deal with the greens is over, whether he will be continuing as leader is a matter of interest in scotland. how be continuing as leader is a matter of interest in scotland.— of interest in scotland. how would that work? — of interest in scotland. how would that work? if _ of interest in scotland. how would that work? if his _ of interest in scotland. how would that work? if his leadership - of interest in scotland. how would that work? if his leadership is - of interest in scotland. how would that work? if his leadership is in i that work? if his leadership is in question, what would they need to do to try and get him out, or would it be a decision he would make? from what we saw — be a decision he would make? from what we saw last _ be a decision he would make? from what we saw last year _ be a decision he would make? from what we saw last year with - be a decision he would make? f'rr�*n what we saw last year with nicola sturgeon, that was her decision to stand down as snp leader. she called a bute house press conference where she made the announcement in february last year. then there was

an snp leadership competition in which humza yousaf put himself forward. he was the preferred candidate of nicola sturgeon at the time come described as the continuity candidate. he won the race, narrowly beating kate forbes, who had wanted the party to go in a different direction. we don't know whether humza yousaf is going to stand down or whether he is simply going to be announcing the end of the bute house agreement today, but should he decide to stand down, there will be an snp leadership contest, presumably. tell there will be an snp leadership contest, presumably.— there will be an snp leadership contest, presumably. tell us how he has been getting _ contest, presumably. tell us how he has been getting on. _ contest, presumably. tell us how he has been getting on. he _ contest, presumably. tell us how he has been getting on. he has - contest, presumably. tell us how he has been getting on. he has had - has been getting on. he has had rebellions within his own party as well as what seems like this acrimonious dispute with the greens. yes, the leadership contest was pretty bitter, to say the least.

since then, the divisions in the party haven't settled down. it was expected that he would give kate forbes a senior role in government. she had been finance secretary, but he just offered her rural affairs secretary. that was seen by some as a demotion. it wasn't necessarily seen by kate forbes in that way, but she said there were issues in terms of government policy and she didn't feel she could take up the post of rural affairs secretary because of her disagreements with government. there has been some concern among rebels in the party about the direction of the government and long—standing concerns about the bute house agreement with the greens. some in the party believe the agreement has led to a drop in

support for the snp. but there are also controversies over some policies such as the deposit returns again, a recycling scheme, opposed by people like a former cabinet secretary who is now a prominent snp rebel. the scheme was scrapped. there have also been concerns about a movement to restrict fishing in some communities, and that was also shelved amid concerns from fishermen that it was going to damage their industry. again, that was a policy which many in the snp were glad to see the back of. so which many in the snp were glad to see the back of.— see the back of. so there are some olitical see the back of. so there are some political advantages _ see the back of. so there are some political advantages for _ see the back of. so there are some political advantages for the - see the back of. so there are some political advantages for the snp . see the back of. so there are some political advantages for the snp to | political advantages for the snp to ditch these controversial policies.

would you say the advantages outweigh the disadvantages? well, those policies have been shelved and they were not popular. the disadvantage if there is a minority government is that, as your reporter was saying, they have to negotiate with parties on a case—by—case basis to get legislation through government. but saying that, at the weekend, the scottish greens co—leader patrick harvie said that at the time, it was thought that the greens might be the ones to ditch the agreement rather than the snp. patrick harvie said that if they came out of the pact with the government, they would work

with the government, they would work with the government, they would work with the minority scottish government. that was the stance that kate forbes took in her leadership campaign last year. she pointed to the fact that there has previously been scottish men are under alex salmond and nicola sturgeon, —— there has been scottish minority governments and others people and they have been able to get legislation through by negotiating with individual parties and in some cases individual msps.— cases individual msps. kathleen nutt, political — cases individual msps. kathleen nutt, political correspondent. cases individual msps. kathleen nutt, political correspondent at| cases individual msps. kathleen i nutt, political correspondent at the herald, thank you very much. we will keep an eye on that story. in the meantime, the post office inquiry continues today with a former post office executive who is described as knowing more about the faulty horizon system than anyone else giving evidence at the inquiry.

angela van den bogerd was the most important person in the legal action taken and wasjudged important person in the legal action taken and was judged heavily for giving misleading evidence. angela is our head of network services. she was paula vennells' right hand woman — one of the big characters in the drama at the centre of so many ruined lives. we're all so sorry for your loss. bogerd was personally involved in many cases. desperate — he was really desperate. and overseeing complaints from sub—postmasters. she was also involved in the mediation scheme, supposed to help them. angela van den bogerd, head of partnerships. here she is sitting next to ceo paula vennells before mps when they were told the post office had found no evidence of any miscarriages ofjustice. what we've wanted to do and been very committed to doing is doing a thorough investigation on each of the issues raised by each of the applications. we've not dragged our feet.

but this was all part of the alleged cover up. i've managed to find some letters. later that year, parmod kalia got a letter from angela. he was wrongly convicted of stealing from his post office in 2001 and sent to prison. he wrote in after seeing a bbc panorama, asking the post office to look again at his case. horizon does not have functionality that allows post office or fujitsu to edit or delete the transactions recorded by branches. well... that wasn't correct. we know it's not correct. she finishes by saying, "if you think you've been wrongly convicted, get a solicitor." when i saw that, i literally did collapse on the floor, knowing there's no way i can get a solicitor and sue them in court. what has the post office done to you, parmod? they've broken me, broken me. 22—odd years.

lost. never going to get that time back with the family — with work or anything. how important is it for you to see her answer questions now? i need to know, has she finally understood and accepted where she was wrong and maybe put her hands up and say, "yeah, sorry. " that would mean a lot to us. it's a big moment for the inquiry, too. she's a person whose finger was in lots of pies. she made a lot of big decisions. so she's got a lot to answer for. angela van den bogerd has already said she would cooperate fully and willingly with the inquiry. you'll be hard pushed to find an empty seat in this room today. emma simpson, bbc news. let's ta ke let's take you straight to the

inquiry now. let's take you straight to the inquiry now-— let's take you straight to the inuui now. , ., ., , ., inquiry now. devastation caused to ou, our inquiry now. devastation caused to you. your family — inquiry now. devastation caused to you, your family and _ inquiry now. devastation caused to you, your family and friends. - inquiry now. devastation caused to you, your family and friends. i - inquiry now. devastation caused to | you, your family and friends. i hope you, yourfamily and friends. i hope my evidence will assist this inquiry with getting to the answers you and so many others deserve. thank you. thank you. can we look at the two witness _ thank you. can we look at the two witness statements, please? the first is— witness statements, please? the first is 114 — witness statements, please? the first is 114 pages long, dated the 20th— first is 114 pages long, dated the 20th of— first is 114 pages long, dated the 20th of march, 2014. and it is urn witn 1100. and it is urn witn1100. i think and it is urn witn1100. i think there _ and it is urn witn1100. i think there are _ and it is urn witn1100. i think there are seven corrections that you wish to— there are seven corrections that you wish to make to that statement. can we start— wish to make to that statement. can we start with the first of those, which _ we start with the first of those, which is — we start with the first of those, which is page 21, paragraph 36? i think_ which is page 21, paragraph 36? i think there — which is page 21, paragraph 36? i think there is an addition that you would _ think there is an addition that you would like — think there is an addition that you would like to make to the end of

paragraph — would like to make to the end of paragraph 36 to insert the following words: _ further disclosure pol 8171 shows i initialed _ further disclosure pol 8171 shows i initiated the provision and analysis of the _ initiated the provision and analysis of the horizon logs in respect of the unexplained loss at the branch. i will the unexplained loss at the branch. i will read _ the unexplained loss at the branch. i will read that back without the two urns. further disclosure shows i initiated _ two urns. further disclosure shows i initiated the provision and analysis of the _ initiated the provision and analysis of the horizon logs in respect of the unexplained loss at the branch. that is— the unexplained loss at the branch. that is correct, thank you. the second amendment, page 31, please.

paragraph 62, in line eight, which reads. _ paragraph 62, in line eight, which reads. this — paragraph 62, in line eight, which reads, this was the first time i had ever ended — reads, this was the first time i had ever ended an interview, surrey, attended — ever ended an interview, surrey, attended an interview with a sub—postmaster. i think you want to add the _ sub—postmaster. i think you want to add the words "this type of" after the word — add the words "this type of" after the word attended so that it reads "this— the word attended so that it reads "this was— the word attended so that it reads "this was the first time i had ever attended — "this was the first time i had ever attended this type of interview". that is _ attended this type of interview". that is correct, thank you. page 38,

lease. paragraph 77, line seven. you would like to— paragraph 77, line seven. you would like to amend the date 10th of march 2012 to _ like to amend the date 10th of march 2012 to the _ like to amend the date 10th of march 2012 to the 10th of may, 2012. that is correct. 2012 to the 10th of may, 2012. that is correct- page — 2012 to the 10th of may, 2012. that is correct. page 65, _ 2012 to the 10th of may, 2012. that is correct. page 65, please. - line one. i think you would like to delete _ line one. i think you would like to delete the — line one. i think you would like to delete the words" as the terms of reference — delete the words" as the terms of reference have not been disclosed. that is— reference have not been disclosed. that is correct, because i have seen them since i put this together. 50 them since i put this together. so that it would read "from memory, the

project _ that it would read "from memory, the project was _ that it would read "from memory, the project was to oversee".— project was to oversee". correct. pa . e project was to oversee". correct. page 104. — project was to oversee". correct. page 104, please. _ paragraph 223 b, which is at the foot c>f_ paragraph 223 b, which is at the foot of the — paragraph 223 b, which is at the foot of the page. i think you would like to— foot of the page. i think you would like to add — foot of the page. i think you would like to add the words "from memory" at the _ like to add the words "from memory" at the beginning of the paragraph so that it _ at the beginning of the paragraph so that it reads, from memory, my involvement.— that it reads, from memory, my involvement.- and - that it reads, from memory, my involvement.- and then | that it reads, from memory, my l involvement.- and then at involvement. correct. and then at the end of— involvement. correct. and then at the end of the _ involvement. correct. and then at the end of the paragraph, - involvement. correct. and then at the end of the paragraph, add - involvement. correct. and then at the end of the paragraph, add thej the end of the paragraph, add the following — the end of the paragraph, add the following words "however, further disclosed — following words "however, further disclosed documents show i was involved — disclosed documents show i was involved in discussions regarding overlaps— involved in discussions regarding overlaps between witness statements".— overlaps between witness

statements". . . m statements". that is correct. page 109, please- _ statements". that is correct. page 109, please. paragraph— statements". that is correct. page 109, please. paragraph 229. - statements". that is correct. page 109, please. paragraph 229. at. statements". that is correct. page | 109, please. paragraph 229. at the end of— 109, please. paragraph 229. at the end of the — 109, please. paragraph 229. at the end of the paragraph, you would like to add _ end of the paragraph, you would like to add the _ end of the paragraph, you would like to add the words "further disclosure shows— to add the words "further disclosure shows me _ to add the words "further disclosure shows me raising my concerns to andrew— shows me raising my concerns to andrew parsons". correct. " further disclosure _ andrew parsons". correct. " further disclosure shows me raising my concerns— disclosure shows me raising my concerns to andrew parsons". can you turn to _ concerns to andrew parsons". can you turn to the — concerns to andrew parsons". can you turn to the final edge of the statement. is that your signature? yes _ statement. is that your signature? yes. �* ., , statement. is that your signature?

yes. ..,, yes. and with those corrections brou . ht yes. and with those corrections brought into — yes. and with those corrections brought into account, _ yes. and with those corrections brought into account, are - yes. and with those corrections brought into account, are those statements are true? they are. can we turn — statements are true? they are. can we turn to— statements are true? they are. can we turn to the second witness statement, which is seven pages long _ statement, which is seven pages long i_ statement, which is seven pages long. i think there is one correction you would like to make to that, _ correction you would like to make to that, which— correction you would like to make to that, which is on page six. paragraph 16. i think you would like to delete _ paragraph 16. i think you would like to delete the words" whilst i cannot", _ to delete the words" whilst i cannot", starting three lines from the bottom, until the end of the

paragraph. the bottom, until the end of the paragraph-— the bottom, until the end of the paragraph-_ so - the bottom, until the end of the paragraph._ so all i the bottom, until the end of the| paragraph._ so all of paragraph. that's right. so all of that -ae~ paragraph. that's right. so all of that page and — paragraph. that's right. so all of that page and over— paragraph. that's right. so all of that page and over the _ paragraph. that's right. so all of that page and over the page - paragraph. that's right. so all of that page and over the page to l paragraph. that's right. so all of i that page and over the page to the words _ that page and over the page to the words "of— that page and over the page to the words "of the scheme". and instead insert _ words "of the scheme". and instead insert the _ words "of the scheme". and instead insert the words "helpline calls were _ insert the words "helpline calls were not— insert the words "helpline calls were not audio recorded at the time. it were not audio recorded at the time. it was _ were not audio recorded at the time. it was the _ were not audio recorded at the time. it was the call logs that were used for the _ it was the call logs that were used for the scheme investigations". that is correct, thank _ for the scheme investigations". trial is correct, thank you. for the scheme investigations". that is correct, thank you. sorry, - for the scheme investigations". that is correct, thank you. sorry, there i is correct, thank you. sorry, there are two sentences _ is correct, thank you. sorry, there are two sentences ending - is correct, thank you. sorry, there are two sentences ending with - are two sentences ending with scheme — are two sentences ending with scheme. there _ are two sentences ending with scheme. there is _ are two sentences ending with scheme. there is the - are two sentences ending with scheme. there is the first - are two sentences ending with scheme. there is the first line j are two sentences ending with - scheme. there is the first line and the third _ scheme. there is the first line and the third line _ scheme. there is the first line and the third line. where _ scheme. there is the first line and the third line. where do— scheme. there is the first line and the third line. where do i- scheme. there is the first line and the third line. where do i stop - the third line. where do i stop deleting? _ the third line. where do i stop deleting? it's— the third line. where do i stop deletinr? h ., the third line. where do i stop deletinr? �*, ., ,, deleting? it's to the end, sir. fine. deleting? it's to the end, sir. fine- and _ deleting? it's to the end, sir. fine. and could _ deleting? it's to the end, sir. fine. and could you - deleting? it's to the end, sir. fine. and could you tell - deleting? it's to the end, sir. fine. and could you tell me i deleting? it's to the end, sir. - fine. and could you tell me again what _ fine. and could you tell me again what the — fine. and could you tell me again what the collection _ fine. and could you tell me again what the collection includes - fine. and could you tell me again what the collection includes by.

fine. and could you tell me again. what the collection includes by way of additional— what the collection includes by way of additional words? _ what the collection includes by way of additional words? yes“ - what the collection includes by way of additional words?— of additionalwords? yes" helpline calls were not _ of additionalwords? yes" helpline calls were not audio _ of additionalwords? yes" helpline calls were not audio recorded - of additionalwords? yes" helpline calls were not audio recorded at i of additional words? yes" helpline. calls were not audio recorded at the time _ calls were not audio recorded at the time it— calls were not audio recorded at the time it was— calls were not audio recorded at the time. it was the call logs that were used _ time. it was the call logs that were used for— time. it was the call logs that were used for the scheme investigations. " thank— used for the scheme investigations. " thank you — used for the scheme investigations. " thank you very much. is that your signature _ " thank you very much. is that your signature on — " thank you very much. is that your signature on page seven? yes. and are the _ signature on page seven? yes. and are the contents of the statement true to— are the contents of the statement true to the — are the contents of the statement true to the best of your knowledge with that _ true to the best of your knowledge with that correction brought into account? — with that correction brought into account? , with that correction brought into account? yes. thank you. can i start with our account? yes. thank you. can i start with your career _ account? yes. thank you. can i start with your career at _ account? jazz thank you. can i start with your career at the post account? 19:3 thank you. can i start with your career at the post office? you had _ with your career at the post office? you had an— with your career at the post office? you had an extensive career at the post office — you had an extensive career at the post office spanning some 35 years. correct _ post office spanning some 35 years. correct. :, , :, ,.,, correct. you first 'oin the post office in 1985, _ correct. you first join the post office in 1985, straight - correct. you first join the post office in 1985, straight from i office in 1985, straight from school _ office in 1985, straight from school. .

office in 1985, straight from school.- he _ office in 1985, straight from school.- he began - office in 1985, straight from school.- he began as i office in 1985, straight from school.- he began as a | office in 1985, straight from school. yes. he began as a post office counter _ school. 193 he began as a post office counter assistant, working the counters, a person who rose up through— the counters, a person who rose up through the — the counters, a person who rose up through the organisation, holding numerous — through the organisation, holding numerous managerial roles. that is correct _ numerous managerial roles. that is correct can— numerous managerial roles. that is correct can i — numerous managerial roles. that is correct. can i outline your career path _ correct. can i outline your career path as— correct. can i outline your career path as i— correct. can i outline your career path as i have understood it? in summary— path as i have understood it? in summary as follows, you were a counter — summary as follows, you were a counter assistant between 1985 and 1987. correct. you were a branch manager— 1987. correct. you were a branch manager between 1987 and 1996. you were a _ manager between 1987 and 1996. you were a retail network manager between — were a retail network manager between 1996 and 2001. you were the head of— between 1996 and 2001. you were the head of area for the rural agency in wales— head of area for the rural agency in wales between 2001 and 2005. you were the _ wales between 2001 and 2005. you were the general manager for the community network of branches between — community network of branches between 2005 and 2006. you were the national— between 2005 and 2006. you were the national network development manager between _ national network development manager between 2006 and 2009. you were the networked _ between 2006 and 2009. you were the networked change operations manager

between _ networked change operations manager between 2009—10. you were ahead of network— between 2009—10. you were ahead of network services between 2010 and 2012 _ network services between 2010 and 2012 you _ network services between 2010 and 2012. you were head of partnerships between _ 2012. you were head of partnerships between 2012 — 13. you were programme director for the barnstaple programme between 2013-15 — barnstaple programme between 2013-15. you barnstaple programme between 2013—15. you were director of support — 2013—15. you were director of support services between 2015—16. you have _ support services between 2015—16. you have a — support services between 2015—16. you have a change director between 2017-18~ _ you have a change director between 2017-18. you you have a change director between 2017—18. you were services director in 2018. _ 2017—18. you were services director in 2018. and — 2017—18. you were services director in 2018, and you were a business improvement director between 2018-2020. improvement director between 2018-2020-— improvement director between i 2018-2020._ given 2018-2020. that is correct. given the [en . th 2018-2020. that is correct. given the length and — 2018-2020. that is correct. given the length and breadth _ 2018-2020. that is correct. given the length and breadth of - 2018-2020. that is correct. given the length and breadth of your. the length and breadth of your career. — the length and breadth of your career, do you accept that you had extensive — career, do you accept that you had extensive contact with and understanding of the position of sub—postmasters? | understanding of the position of sub-postmasters?_ understanding of the position of sub—postmasters? i did. do you agree sub-postmasters? i did. do you agree that ou sub-postmasters? i did. do you agree that you lived — sub—postmasters? l c c do you agree that you lived through the

development, and the role of horizon? _ development, and the role of horizon? yes. you lived through the roll-out _ horizon? yes. you lived through the roll-out of— horizon? yes. you lived through the roll—out of the impact programme. sorry. _ roll—out of the impact programme. sorry. the — roll—out of the impact programme. sorry, the impact programme? do roll-out of the impact programme. sorry, the impact programme? do you not remember — sorry, the impact programme? do you not remember the _ sorry, the impact programme? do you not remember the impact _ sorry, the impact programme? do you | not remember the impact programme? no. 1: z: not remember the impact programme? no. :: :: i am not remember the impact programme? no-- i am not _ not remember the impact programme? no. 2005. i am not familiar with that. do no. 2005. i am not familiar with that- do you _ no. 2005. i am not familiar with that. do you accept _ no. 2005. i am not familiar with that. do you accept that - no. 2005. i am not familiar with that. do you accept that you - no. 2005. i am not familiar with l that. do you accept that you lived throu . h that. do you accept that you lived through the _ that. do you accept that you lived through the move _ that. do you accept that you lived through the move to _ that. do you accept that you lived through the move to horizon - that. do you accept that you lived i through the move to horizon online in 2010? _ through the move to horizon online in 2010? yes. the production of that ismay— in 2010? yes. the production of that ismay report — in 2010? yes. the production of that ismay report in 2010? yes. the production _ ismay report in 2010? yes. the production of— ismay report in 2010? yes. the production of the _ ismay report in 2010? 193 the production of the deloitte report? yes. production of the deloitte report? yes all_ production of the deloitte report? yes all of— production of the deloitte report? yes. all of the prosecutions of sub—postmasters based on evidence produced _ sub—postmasters based on evidence produced by horizon happened when you were~~ — produced by horizon happened when ou were... . produced by horizon happened when you were- - -— you were... yes, they happened durin: you were... yes, they happened during my _ you were... yes, they happened during my time. _ you were... yes, they happened during my time. you _ you were... yes, they happened during my time. you were - you were... yes, they happened i during my time. you were involved you were... yes, they happened - during my time. you were involved in the second initial— during my time. you were involved in the second initial investigation - during my time. you were involved in the second initial investigation and i the second initial investigation and with the _ the second initial investigation and with the mediation scheme? yes. and ou were with the mediation scheme? 193 and you were involved in the group

litigation _ you were involved in the group litiuation. .